When did the 40 hours minimum for Private come about?

[Frmr Avro Drvr]

I have a student that is trying to justify to his employer that expecting him to finish in 40 hours is a pretty high bar to set. He is arguing that he can reasonably do it in 50 to 55 and would like reimbursement to that level. If he has to he will take the 40 hours worth of money since free money is free money, but why not try for more.

What he is really trying to show is that the 40 hour rule has been around for a while and the requirements for tasks and training has increased. He is trying to show that the industry advertised average of 55 to 70 is correct.

Any of you "more mature" types remember when 40 hours became the minimum?

Thanks

 

[gkrangers]

Better not let them find out about Part 141

 

[flydrummer]

Man....can I get a job there??? I'd love for my employer to pay for ANY hours!

 

[minitour]

Could you "fudge" the numbers for him?

Mr Business Owner:
Regarding your employee, John, and his pilot training, here is the hourly breakdowns for obtaining a private pilot's license.

15 - Primary Training For Pre-Solo Flight
4 - Solo Flight and Primary Review
15 - Primary Training for Cross Country Flight
8 - Solo Cross Country Flight
5 - Primary Night Flight Training
3 - Primary Flight Training by Sole Reference to Instruments
5 - Flight Test Preparation Training
2 - Flight Test
Total: 57 Hours

Please call me personally regarding any questions about John's training. I look forward to working with him and answering any questions you both may have.

Best Regards,
Jim The CFI

Send him a letter or something like that and just say "this is what it will be"...

Not sure if that'll work, but if you break it down like that, it may help things out a bit.

Hope that helped a little.

-mini

 

[say again]

Where I'm from 60-80 hrs is average. Of course, the school will say you CAN get in 40, but that rarely ever happens. A way to rope people in. It certainly gets quite a few people angry when they realize that it's costing them almost double than what they were told.
As for where they got the 40 hr rule, I have no idea!!!!

 

[Frmr Avro Drvr]

Could you "fudge" the numbers for him?

Mr Business Owner:
Regarding your employee, John, and his pilot training, here is the hourly breakdowns for obtaining a private pilot's license.

15 - Primary Training For Pre-Solo Flight
4 - Solo Flight and Primary Review
15 - Primary Training for Cross Country Flight
8 - Solo Cross Country Flight
5 - Primary Night Flight Training
3 - Primary Flight Training by Sole Reference to Instruments
5 - Flight Test Preparation Training
2 - Flight Test
Total: 57 Hours

Please call me personally regarding any questions about John's training. I look forward to working with him and answering any questions you both may have.

Best Regards,
Jim The CFI

Send him a letter or something like that and just say "this is what it will be"...

Not sure if that'll work, but if you break it down like that, it may help things out a bit.

Hope that helped a little.

-mini

I already did that an they keep pointing back that the minimum required is 40 hours so that is all they will pay for. As I said, he will take any money, but why not go for it all.

By the way, how is David J. Perry airport these days. I used to freelance out of there. I spent quite a few hours tooling around central OK.

 

[Frmr Avro Drvr]

Man....can I get a job there??? I'd love for my employer to pay for ANY hours!

Do you have an engineering degree? If yes, chances are you could get in here.

 

[minitour]

I already did that an they keep pointing back that the minimum required is 40 hours so that is all they will pay for. As I said, he will take any money, but why not go for it all.

By the way, how is David J. Perry airport these days. I used to freelance out of there. I spent quite a few hours tooling around central OK.

Can you pull any stats showing the 40 isn't realistic?

As for Perry...last time I was there (March?) it was pretty busy. There was me and two or three others in the pattern, so I left and went back to Westheimer. Seemed like a few planes on the ground too.

-mini

 

[Frmr Avro Drvr]

Can you pull any stats showing the 40 isn't realistic?

As for Perry...last time I was there (March?) it was pretty busy. There was me and two or three others in the pattern, so I left and went back to Westheimer. Seemed like a few planes on the ground too.

-mini

We got quote from the following:

Old (1999) FAA Student handbook
AOPA Magazine
Plane and Pilot

They quote anything from 50 to 85 hours.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[mayday1]

i thought AOPA or the FAA website stated national averages.. don't have time to look now, but I'm sure I've read these somewhere... although the employer may not care about averages. Also, why push it.. the guys getting 40hrs free, or almost a PPL for nothing...

 

[Almerick07]

follow a part 141 syllabus and let the 5 hours spill over for anything extra

 

[NEFlyer]

It will take more hours the longer you stretch it out. We just had a guy pass in 30 days with 42 hours. If we didn't have a hurricane problem he would have been done in 21 days. Our average time is about 45 hours if it is done in 3 months or less.

 

[Mr Wu]

What are you averaging for your private students and are you confident that he cannot do it in 40 hours?

 

[A Squared]

Well, I don't know exactly when the 40 hours started, but I have a copy of the regulations from 1950. Here's the way it was back then:

If you are training in a "spinable" aircraft, you have to have 10 hours of dual instruction and 30 hours of solo flight. If the aircraft was not spinable, you were required to have 7 hours of dual instruction and 20 hours of solo flight.

Interesting, compare that with today's requirement of 40 hours with at least 20 hours of dual instruction. It almost seems like back then the instructor taught you to solo, then you went out and taught yourself from there on.

Also interesting was that (reading between the lines) the intent was that spin training and practice took an additional 13 hours.

 

[minitour]

If you are training in a "spinable" aircraft, you have to have 10 hours of dual instruction and 30 hours of solo flight. If the aircraft was not spinable, you were required to have 7 hours of dual instruction and 20 hours of solo flight.