When are the Saabs leaving at Mesaba?

[TurboAWD]

To bad they still don't let you throw the deck furniture in the pool.

Ouch. Everyone has a bad day now and then...

Turbo

 

[Jamis81]

Saabs

FWIW ---

Training Center rumors from when I was there this summer, NWA is looking at the Q200/300/400.

Now that there isn't an airplane in the fleet than can go to Aspen, apparently they are looking at the Q400, and the smaller Q's to replace the Saab...

This could also just be the wet dreams of former Dash pilots though too, I dunno.

 

[Raskal]

FWIW ---

Training Center rumors from when I was there this summer, NWA is looking at the Q200/300/400.

Now that there isn't an airplane in the fleet than can go to Aspen, apparently they are looking at the Q400, and the smaller Q's to replace the Saab...

This could also just be the wet dreams of former Dash pilots though too, I dunno.

Well, not entirely true. The 900 could go there, the problem is though the 900 performance is worlds apart from the underpowered 200 it has too many seats for ASE, so too hard to make any damn money. The avro ops into there rarely made much of a margin either. I for one hope (as I've heard from various people on property) that the Q400 does come in, otherwise there are a whole lot of small airport markets we would be walking away from. We'll see soon, the first 340B leases start expiring in 2010.

 

[Jamis81]

400vs900

Thats cool about the 900 I didn't know it could go into Aspen. Well, I stand corrected.. wonder if we'll start going there anytime soon.. probably not by the sounds of it.

 

[FlyingToIST]

FWIW ---

Training Center rumors from when I was there this summer, NWA is looking at the Q200/300/400.

Now that there isn't an airplane in the fleet than can go to Aspen, apparently they are looking at the Q400, and the smaller Q's to replace the Saab...

This could also just be the wet dreams of former Dash pilots though too, I dunno.

Then why did they drop the 200s for Saabs at the first place?

 

[Jamis81]

saabs

Then why did they drop the 200s for Saabs at the first place?

I couldn't tell you, what I wrote about the Q's is just what I heard from some of the people in the training center

 

[xjhawk]

Here is some fuel for the fire. NWA can only get 90 76 regional jets unless they increase the mainline fleet on a 1:1 basis. They already have 72 on their way to mesaba and compass (together). That leaves 18 more that can come. I think they will excersize those options for either compass or XJ. NWA has options for something like 90 planes at EMB and 150 planes at Bombardier. What are those planes going to be if they have such scope limitations to adhere to? Here is a thought.

18 more 76 seaters

Bombardier Q series orders

a larger than 110 seat DC -9 replacement to adhere to scope for the NWA pilots

no more crj 200's since they are not cost effective in this high fuel world

 

[sinkrate]

NW has to keep XJ under the AC limit that would trigger a snap back in pay rates, for a while. They also need to build it into a 100 AC all jet fleet before they can spin it off in an IPO.

Wild guess

The remaining CR9's go to XJ along with the 17 200's from 9E

To make the fleet all jet the SF3's go to Colgan and more of 9E's fleet goes to XJ

If NW does place a Q order they go to Colgan and even more of 9E's 200 fleet goes to XJ

The first NW CRJ goes back to the lessor in May '10, two and half years from right now. After that 2 a month go back for a year and then three a month go back.

When NW has the CRJ fleet the way they want it at XJ Pinnacle Inc will file BK and shut down.

Pinnacle Corp then has a non union carrier at Colgan that has a large number of tuboprops and NW spins off XJ in an IPO

Then the whipsaw starts over again.

It's an old familiar feeling

 

[Andrew_VT]

They also need to build it into a 100 AC all jet fleet before they can spin it off in an IPO.

Why?! All jet fleets were sooo 90's

All your predictions are based on this 'all jet at XJ' thing...which I don't get at all.

 

[XJohXJ]

NW has to keep XJ under the AC limit that would trigger a snap back in pay rates, for a while. They also need to build it into a 100 AC all jet fleet before they can spin it off in an IPO.

What are you talking about? All we need is 36 jets by Dec 1, 2008 to get the full snapback percentage for that date. We are on track to have over 36 jets by that date. We are already half way there with a full year to go. Even if something happened and deliveries stopped, we would get half of our snap back (with 18 total jets). If we get all of the planes we are currently allocated (or even 17 less than currently allocated) we will be at full snapback by Dec 1, 2009.

We all know that Mesaba and NWA mgt will trip all over themselves to steal an extra penny for their bonus checks. However, "snap back paranoia" is a bit over the top. The BK was all about beating down the price of Mesaba, and allowing NWA to pick it up for a song.

 

[TurboAWD]

Also, NW can not just arbitrarily remove further aircraft from the Pinnacle ASA. There are certain conditions that must be met for them to do that.

Turbo

 

[Morning Wood]

Thats cool about the 900 I didn't know it could go into Aspen. Well, I stand corrected.. wonder if we'll start going there anytime soon.. probably not by the sounds of it.

There's no CAT D mins in ASE. I'm not sure how the 900 would go there.

 

[apache]

They could get the FAA to sign off on a special approach procedure specific to the aircraft and company.

 

[BoilerUP]

it has too many seats for ASE, so too hard to make any damn money.

Air Wisconsin could fill 100 seat 146s in and out of ASE during ski season...UAL made plenty of money by them doing it, too.

 

[Raskal]

Air Wisconsin could fill 100 seat 146s in and out of ASE during ski season...UAL made plenty of money by them doing it, too.

I was wondering if that would come up. I would love to see some numbers from somewhere on the margin for ASE. I personally have no idea what made money in and out of there, only what I've been told, but I've heard both solid yes' and solid no's on the 146 ops. The only thing I do know is that when I was flying corporate into ASE often in the season those avros were packed from what I could see.

Any way to find that kind of info? I wouldn't even begin to know where to look.

 

[Jamis81]

76 seaters

Here is some fuel for the fire. NWA can only get 90 76 regional jets unless they increase the mainline fleet on a 1:1 basis. They already have 72 on their way to mesaba and compass (together). That leaves 18 more that can come. I think they will excersize those options for either compass or XJ. NWA has options for something like 90 planes at EMB and 150 planes at Bombardier. What are those planes going to be if they have such scope limitations to adhere to? Here is a thought.

18 more 76 seaters

Bombardier Q series orders

a larger than 110 seat DC -9 replacement to adhere to scope for the NWA pilots

no more crj 200's since they are not cost effective in this high fuel world

I think Compass is supposed to be getting 25 planes in their initial order, and I read in the paper about a month ago that NWA finalized 454 million in financing for 27 EMB-175LR's to go to Compass... That would put them at 52 planes and with our 36 at 88 76 seaters. That puts NWA 2 under the scope agreement...

 

[xjhawk]

I think that financing was for the second half of their initial 36 airplane order, I seem to remember reading that article myself.

 

[CFIfornow]

I think that financing was for the second half of their initial 36 airplane order, I seem to remember reading that article myself.

Yeah, only 36 planes going to Compass as of right now.

 

[JPAustin]

To bad they still don't let you throw the deck furniture in the pool.

That wasn't me and I have proof! Oh yeah, I'm still employed, thats the proof.

Joking aside, atleast thats better than getting drunk off your butt, hitting on a girl in the bar, getting denied, watching the rest of the crew honor the 12-hour company rule, drinking 4 more hours, hit on the girl again, get denied again, get mad, storm out to the pool... wait, that was the same incident wasn't it?

Okay, atleast better than ending up locked outside the room completely naked and walking down to the front desk to get another key! That one wasn't me either, but I know it happenned!

 

[de Pez]

It seems to me the Mesaba SF-340 leases were for 18 years starting from sometime in the early 1990's (I'm sure someone can find it on-line, I have no inclination)..The airline industry was booming, and I recall being disappointed that such long-term leases were signed...At the time, the regional jet was new and "taking over" the industry...Who would have thought in that time of cheap oil that the Saab's would survive the "RJ revolution" and maintain their niche....Personally, I feel that we will see $100/barrel oil before we see $90/barrel again, simply reinforcing the niche of an aging aircraft in a failing industry...