Wheels up

[brokeflyer]

i agree with that....fighter pilots are the best in the world at what they do....but they cant fly a learjet to save anyones life.

 

[rajflyboy]

No we are not talking abot that. This thread drifted into a discussion of PIC time. That led to where would be the best place to build the skills to be a PIC. Someone compared 700 hours year as a measure vs the lower time F-15 guy. My point is 700 hr of watching the auto-pilot does not compare to the intensity of the training environment of the military. Learning to be an airline pilot is just another training event for the military guy and their success rate for low time guys speaks for itself.

That's a bunch of crap

The f15 guy is clueless when it comes to shooting an approach in bad weather conditions with low ceilings. This is the type of flying we do in the civilian world. Also the crew concept is very important in the civilian world. The fighter jock is behind on both counts.

 

[rajflyboy]

ditto that, but the chances are the F15 fighter jock will have a much higher probability of successful completion of training. The F-15 guy has some real PIC time. Plus he is in a constant training cycle. He has been screend well beyond the average civilian pilot and faced a far more stringent a elimination program. BTW the USAF flight time forms may be a bit more accurate than other ways of logging flight time.

I would much rather have a former CRJ captain flying my family around than a former fighter jock. I wouldn't even have to think twice about it.

CRJ captain can handle any weather situation you throw at him. He can deal with dispatch and the problems that brings and he can also fly as a crew and get along well with others.

 

[NoJoy]

^^^Probably another good reason some military pilots should spend at least a year at the "lowly" regionals to get used to the 121 training and flying envirenment. It would make the transition to the Majors much easier for them. Or maybe they could fly for Gama

 

[Pervis]

That's a bunch of crap

The f15 guy is clueless when it comes to shooting an approach in bad weather conditions with low ceilings. This is the type of flying we do in the civilian world. Also the crew concept is very important in the civilian world. The fighter jock is behind on both counts.

No doubt CRM is an issue for single seat types, but they do learn. Why is it that Delta and Southwest have always favored fighter types?

You list both military and civil in your profile. Have you ever flown into RAF Upper Heyford, or Lakenheath, or Bitburg, or Ramstein, or Scheusterburg, or Jever, etc. Nearly every fighter jock does one or more tours in Europe, Alaska, Iceland, Korea, etc with wx consistently worse than many places we frequent in the civilian world. Try that in close fingertip. Clueless in wx? Hardley.

 

[pilotyip]

No doubt CRM is an issue for single seat types, but they do learn. Why is it that Delta and Southwest have always favored fighter types? Try that in close fingertip. Clueless in wx? Hardley.

As per above, the success of all military pilots in the transisiton to civilian flying speaks for itself. re some slower to catch on than others, probably, but not unique to military pilot. They are rapid learners. It seems they do get head of the line privileges at places like DAl, FedEx, SWA, JUS, etc.there must be something to that.

 

[AirCobra]

That's a bunch of crap

The f15 guy is clueless when it comes to shooting an approach in bad weather conditions with low ceilings. This is the type of flying we do in the civilian world. Also the crew concept is very important in the civilian world. The fighter jock is behind on both counts.

Yes the ever so difficult ILS to low ceilings. When I flew for Uncle Sam that was the easy part of my day. ACM, gunnery, and later when I flew helo's: hoisting, were way more challenging that shooting approaches in bad weather. In fact there was no comparison. When you break out of the clouds I am pretty sure your runway is pretty long and stationary.

 

[hammer2]

Yes the ever so difficult ILS to low ceilings. When I flew for Uncle Sam that was the easy part of my day. ACM, gunnery, and later when I flew helo's: hoisting, were way more challenging that shooting approaches in bad weather. In fact there was no comparison. When you break out of the clouds I am pretty sure your runway is pretty long and stationary.

Yeah, I think the crux of this discussion boils down to egos that may have been roughed up at one time or the other. We learn from and cover for each other by the time we get to this level.

I will say this though, even the eyes of an ex F15 pilot will get big the first time they shoot an approach to minimums and circle to 33 at Castlegar, BC. It is always stationary but not always long or easily accessible.

 

[brokeflyer]

companies like military guys because they follow orders, period. a broken plane, crappy weather whatever, they are trained to go when the boss says go.

thats why military guys are good for the military. they're terrible for flying other people around.

 

[NoJoy]

^^^Hey man, MEL that plane when you get to your destination. By the way you don't need a take-off alt either.
just kidding-