Wheel landings

[cougar6903]

From what I've read wheel landings are performed when there is a strong crosswind or winds are gusty. The way my CFI explains it, taildraggers are most vulnorable on the ground when at low speed and the tailwheel is off the ground. Wouldn't there be a point near the end of a wheel landing where you are at a low speed and the tailwheel is istill in the air, giving you little if any directional control? What if a gust of wind would hit you at that point? The way I see it I would rather do a 3 point landing and have the tailwheel pinned down to maintain directional control. Any input from would be appreciated.

on a side note, I've seen some banner tow planes that have a placard saying "this aircraft should always be landed in a softfield manner". I imagined this is because of the larger props that are installed.

 

[TIGV]

This has been an argument among tailwheel flyers for a while, I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents.

I've only flown 5 different tailwheel aircraft and I found that the 3-point landing turned out to be the best crosswind landing method for all of them and here's why.

By slowing to a normal 3-point landing approach speed and using the forward slip all the way down final for crosswind correction you will be able to tell very early in your final approach whether or not you might run out of rudder or aileron by the time you get to the weeds due to a larger than anticipated crosswind.
If all is well then continue your approach and make use of the second advantage to crosswind 3-point landings, which is going from a flying controlled condition to a landed and controlled condition, meaning you will make a smooth transition from rudder yaw control to tailwheel control right off the bat.
If all is well then the third advantage comes in, in a good 3-pointer, by the time your wheel slap the deck or whisper onto the grass you shouldn't have more than 5 knots of flying speed left and once idled she will stay on the deck.

I like wheel landings for determining field conditions at unknown grassports or if you don't have a radio, the primary advantage is the ability to run your gear on the surface you wish to land on to determine it's suitability for landing, be it gravel, grass or sand, with the added benefit that should the surface prove to be unsuitable you have plenty of flying speed to get her back off and head someplace else or, if conditions are good , continue your landing without needing to go around as long as you have plenty of landing surface.

Note: This is only a personal preference, but I use 3-pointers for tuff crosswinds, wheel landings for determining field conditions or shooting touch n goes.

Note 2: Don't know about all you other fellas and there's a bunch of tailwheel gurus on this site with a load more time than me, but maybe you might find the above helpful, in addition a cool little trick to helping you out when you do fly wheel landings is to set about 1/2 pound to a pound of forward stick-force with the elev trim on final when your speed is stable, then just kiss the wheels on and relax your hand on the stick, let the trim fly the tail up for ya, this will help you avoid the dreaded pilot induced oscillation ( can you say kangaroo ? ) very helpful when operating taildraggers with sprungsteel gear on tarmac while doing wheel landings.

 

[TrafficInSight]

I perform all my landings using my wheels, thank you.

HAR!!

 

[Immelman]

I have to agree with the assertion that during the last part of a wheel landing you are vulnerable to wind... at least its been my experience that I feel that way. You have to keep the tail up until there is little chance of lifting off when the tail comes down, and that may mean holding the tail in the air until the aircraft is quite slow -- below Vso. Rudder authority fades fast that those speeds -unless- you are ready to apply a burst of power.

Note that all of t/w time is in Citabrias so perhaps that biases me to the characteristics of that type.

 

[Wang Chung]

It can be dicey when the tail is high in the air without any flow over the surfaces, especially if it's gusty. Some guys like to shove the stick forward in a wheel landing to keep the tail in the air until it drops to the ground by itself. I think that can be asking for trouble, so I have always just lowered the tail to the ground and pinned the tailwheel when the speed starts to bleed off.

I was originally taught to wheel-land in a crosswind, and that's what I did for 50-100 hours of tailwheel flying. I reached a point where I decided to try 3-pointing in a crosswind to see how it felt (took me a little while to conjure up the grapefruits to try it - not that it's unsafe but it was something that I have never been formally taught). It worked great, and now I'm comfortable with crosswinds in either type of landing (at least when flying the more common taildraggers). It's always great to have the steering authority of the tailwheel on the ground.

Read 'Stick and Rudder' for more insights. Wolfgang is a genius.

Also, taildragger pilots are real opinionated about wheels vs. 3-point, which types should be landed in what way, how to best handle crosswinds, etc. etc. etc. Just take it all with a little grain of salt, as this thread may very well mushroom into a debate full of name-calling and "I have more taildragger time than you/I've flown more tailwheel types than you" type stuff.

Blue skies, fly safe.

 

[falcon20driver]

Got about 1500 hours in Cubs, never done a wheel landing in one, 3 point works fine, never had a problem controlling the plane during a strong xwind landing or on the ground, you have brakes to help steer in a strong xwind.

 

[VNugget]

Just one data point... my tailwheel school very strongly dicourages wheel landings, to the point where it's fair to say that they don't allow them. (Of course they still teach them due to the FAR requirement, but ask you to forget about them soon thereafter.)

That being said, here's my take on it.

In either type of landing, the tailwheel won't be on the ground until stall speed... 3-pointer because nothing is on the ground above stall speed, and wheel landing because if you got the tail down above stall speed, the wing would go flying again. So the only difference is the mains. I think that in that margin between wheel-landing-speed and stall speed, it would be better to have something planted on the ground rather than nothing in the case of a gust.

The above is from rational consideration, and not from experience.

 

[LR25]

Got about 1500 hours in Cubs, never done a wheel landing in one, 3 point works fine, never had a problem controlling the plane during a strong xwind landing or on the ground, you have brakes to help steer in a strong xwind.

In all that time you have never done one?

I have to admit, Cubs and Supercubs 3 point very easy, even in strong x-winds, but there seems to be a little more work involved trying to get a nice 3 point opposed to just wheel landing the thing on.

I used fly Supercubs off of grass alot, and most of the time I would 3 point them, but on concrete I always wheel land.

But in other instances, in other types of aircraft, you wouldnt want to 3 point, but thats me.

 

[sbav8r]

Depends on the aircraft. I prefered wheel landings in the Waco, much more rudder authority that way.

 

[Grumman guy]

I look at it this way, if strong x-wind conditions exist a wheelie is helpfull for two reasons, first is that normally you come in faster on wheel landings, more rudder controll, easier to keep the nose straight. The second reson is that it is much easier to go flying again from a wheelie should everything go south, back in the air for another try is much better than a ground loop.

Three pointers put you into a much more vulnerable position for a longer period of time on landing than wheelies do.

 

[TIGV]

I look at it this way, if strong x-wind conditions exist a wheelie is helpfull for two reasons, first is that normally you come in faster on wheel landings, more rudder controll, easier to keep the nose straight. The second reson is that it is much easier to go flying again from a wheelie should everything go south, back in the air for another try is much better than a ground loop.

Three pointers put you into a much more vulnerable position for a longer period of time on landing than wheelies do.

I have to agree, you do have more rudder control,....well at least at the start of your landing roll but I submit that should your crosswind conditions exceed your or the aircraft's limitations I would rather be made aware of that on a 1/2 mile final, which will become apparent when adopting the 3-point landing configuration and using the forward slip all the way down final.

Wheel landings are not for the beginner, in fact if you're landing on concrete with sprung steel gear, wheel landings on the best of days can be kind of dicey for a low-time tailwheel pilot.

I am still of the opinion that you can't beat a 3-point landing in a strong crosswind and although I teach ' wheel ' landings I don't encourage their use for small fabric taildraggers, for larger metal aircraft this may not be the case but my experience doesn't include anything larger than a C-170B.

My opinion only but if you're new to tailwheel flying stick with the 3-pointer and you can't go wrong.

Disclamer: The above advice is limited to only those types of aircraft I have flown, list below:

Aeronca Champ/Chief
Taylorcraft
J-3 Cub
Citabria
Decathlon
Cessna 170
Kitfox

( I have also flown the Pitts, landing them puppies is a whole different ballgame LOL )

 

[RightPedal]

I look at it this way, if strong x-wind conditions exist a wheelie is helpfull for two reasons, first is that normally you come in faster on wheel landings, more rudder controll, easier to keep the nose straight. The second reson is that it is much easier to go flying again from a wheelie should everything go south, back in the air for another try is much better than a ground loop.

Three pointers put you into a much more vulnerable position for a longer period of time on landing than wheelies do.

I agree with you 100%. We may be wrong but it has never failed me. Cub Maule Stearman even the notorious evel minded cone tail luscomb. High wind low wind no wind I try to wheel land. A three piont is just available to correct a bad attempt at a wheelee, for me that is. I especially like wheel landing on grass. You can hear it hitting the wheels and know just when to stick it.
The right way is what works best for me, and I aint never bent or broke nutin "yet"

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

From what I've read wheel landings are performed when there is a strong crosswind or winds are gusty. The way my CFI explains it, taildraggers are most vulnorable on the ground when at low speed and the tailwheel is off the ground. Wouldn't there be a point near the end of a wheel landing where you are at a low speed and the tailwheel is istill in the air, giving you little if any directional control? What if a gust of wind would hit you at that point? The way I see it I would rather do a 3 point landing and have the tailwheel pinned down to maintain directional control. Any input from would be appreciated. on a side note, I've seen some banner tow planes that have a placard saying "this aircraft should always be landed in a softfield manner". I imagined this is because of the larger props that are installed.

On the rollout, avoid having the tailwheel on the ground with the stick forward. This is "No Man's Land," as I call it when I'm instructing in tailwheel airplanes. In most tailwheel aircraft used for flight training, you want to plant the tailwheel firmly but smoothly onto the ground as you begin to lose elevator authority. Failing to plant the tailwheel provides for a "worst combined factors" scenario because you're dealing with low rudder authority (blanked out by the fuse) as well as low tailwheel authority (since you're carrying the weight of the empennage partially/mostly by the vertical stab and elevator.) On top of that, the high AOA in the three point attitude means that at higher airspeeds, the weight of the fuse will be carried partially by the wings, as well. Keep those crosswind inputs in, and keep the stick back, all the way to the ramp!

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

I agree with you 100%. We may be wrong but it has never failed me. Cub Maule Stearman even the notorious evel minded cone tail luscomb. High wind low wind no wind I try to wheel land. A three piont is just available to correct a bad attempt at a wheelee, for me that is. I especially like wheel landing on grass. You can hear it hitting the wheels and know just when to stick it.
The right way is what works best for me, and I aint never bent or broke nutin "yet"

I agree, too, w/r/t most small tailwheel airplanes. There's nothing wrong with wheel landings - they offer a lot of advantages over 3-pointers. The Pitts Special, for one, is a different matter. Best to land it in the three-point attitude no matter what.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for all the info guys. I am working on my Tailwheel in a 7ac 65hp champ and have been making great 3 point landings but wheel landings have been giving me some trouble. The runway at the airport is grass and the most uneven I've ever used. Makes it extra challenging to do wheel landings at least for me. Last time I flew it was 12 kts gusting to 16 and about 40-50 degrees off the nose. Many of my landings had to be turned into 3 point after i'd bounce it on one wheel and turned out fine as a full stall. Like some have already mentioned, my CFI recomended leaving in a bit of power and coming in a few kts faster but that seemed to just make me bounce harder.