What's your opinion on the Caravan?

[FearlessFreep]

I will have to agree with most of the post s here that flying the Caravan in the single pilot IFR freight environment will give you valuable experience.

Now as far as how valuable Caravan time is... not much- unless you are going to move laterally (and in most cases downward on the payscale) to the regionals. Caravan time might be of some help to get on with the fractionals as I have heard of some people getting employed with them with just the Caravan time. Please note that it was pre 9/11 that these people got hired. There is such a glut of people with jet time on the market that are getting on with the fractionals, so the market may be fairly tight. Do not dishearten though as I do not know how the frax feel about hiring furloughees from the Majors.

For just raw experience flying, the Caravan in the freight environment (Fedex, UPS, DHL contracts etc.) represents the opportunity to experience a different side of aviation if you have not had previous 135 exposure. You will be operating out of small fields into major metropolitan airports on scheduled runs in all kinds of weather.

Just think of the Caravan as a stepping stone, and make strong definite plans to move on, if that is your intention. It is very easy to get stuck in the Caravan and it is very difficult to get out.

One thing that looms on the horizon is that as more and more freight operators are utilizing Caravans and letting go of the older piston twins or even some of the smaller turbine twins (Caravans are cheaper to operate and are quite capable) what is going to happen to the validity of SEL turbine time in the market? Is it going to be worth anything, will people advance out of the Caravan into heavier multi turbine aircraft or will they be stuck?

 

[ex208driver]

flying the 208 was a great stepping stone for me. i had about 1100-1200 hours in one when i got picked up by a regional carrier but that was pre 9/11. it is great for the little bit of advanced avoinics and the flight director with autopilot. it gives the basics for moving into a partial glass or full glass instrument panel. found that having the experience of flying a turbine made it easier going to a turboprop in the airlines.you are not afriad of the engine and shock cooling it. take the experience and when going for an interview , know the aircraft that you are flying very well. take care

 

[FearlessFreep]

The Caravan should be getting to be a very interesting aircraft shortly. Met a Garrett representative in Anchorage and in our conversation he told about a Caravan that they are hanging a TPE-331 840eshp (flat rated) engine on. In addition to that they are also installing an electrical de-ice system that should be way more effective than those stinking boots. He showed me pictures of it being run up, it should be test flown this week. Another 165 hp would certainly help, personally I told him that they should kick it up to a total of 1200 hp!

 

[cheezpilot]

The caravan is a great airplane to fly and I had a lot of fun in it. The freight experience is fantastic with all the weather you have to deal with. However, back when Coex had pay for training mins of 1200tt and 200multi or you had to pay, it did not help me. I had two friends walk in resumes for me and I interviewed with 2000tt and 180multi. The first thing they asked me in the interview was if I was willing to pay for training and I said no. My friends told me to call the bluff because of my 500 PIC turbine in the Caravan. They gave me my ticket back home and the interview lasted about 1 minute. Coex was my first choice for a regional also.
The caravan is an amazing airplane though. I was in one on a trip to Central America when they took off from an 1800foot gravel strip with 14 pax on board. Of course we rotated at the end of the runway and it went out over water, but it was still pretty amazing. We used to contract them out for the same weight in cargo as the Metro II (3000lbs) and they were cheaper to operate than the Cessna 404's, while carrying 1000lbs more and only 5kts slower.

 

[jimbo]

Fearless,
Are you serious? A Garrett on a 208??? Please don't mess up a good thing Cessna!!! I'll take a Pratt over Garrett any day of the week on a single engine airplane. I'd be real nervous if that is the case
Jimbo

 

[w8n4swa]

Jim quoted:

Is there a single engine turbine airplane that wieghs over 12,500 pounds??


Fred Ayres in Albany, GA developed a single propellar twin turbine aircraft called the Loadmaster LM200...well over 12,500 lbs. Don't know if this would qualify for single or multi engine. FedEx ordered 50 before Ayres Aircraft went into bankruptcy. Don't know if the aircraft will ever get produced.

Since Ayres declared bankruptcy last November, development of the Loadmaster LM200 has slowed considerably, although the FAA recently issued a notice of proposed special conditions regarding certification of the aircraft. These flight-test special conditions, Ayres certification manager Jim Hill told AIN, concern testing of the airplane with its Fadec- controlled propulsion system unit failed and one engine inoperative. The Loadmaster is designed to be powered by two CTP800-4T turboprop engines driving a single Hamilton Standard propeller via a GKN Westland combining gearbox.

According to the FAA, “This airplane will have novel or unusual design features associated with centerline thrust. The applicable airworthiness regulations do not contain adequate or appropriate safety standards for this design feature. These proposed special conditions contain the additional safety standards that the Administrator considers necessary to establish a level of safety equivalent to that established by the existing airworthiness standards.”

Other special conditions, relating to fire protection in the Loadmaster’s cargo and baggage compartments, were issued in final form by the FAA in early April. These conditions specify the certification provisions the Loadmaster must meet, in addition to the requirements in Part 23, when operating in all-cargo and combination cargo/ passenger (combi) configurations.

Despite this progress and the limited work being done on the Loadmaster prototype in Albany, Ayres said it is extremely difficult to estimate first flight and certification dates for the airplane until Ayres is restructured.

 

[shootr]

Fedex 1000 pic

SNA,

The Fedex requirement is 1000 PIC in jets or multi-engine. I have lots of T-34C time but not enough P-3 PIC time to apply. Even asked them at a conference and they restated "jet or multi-engine".

Good Luck,
shootr

 

[jetdriven]

We used to contract them out for the same weight in cargo as the Metro II (3000lbs) and they were cheaper to operate than the Cessna 404's, while carrying 1000lbs more and only 5kts slower.

Our 404's would carry 3000 lbs and Ive never seen a C-208 do 180 KTS either! Fastest Ive seen a caravan go is about 150 kts true at the lower altitudes. We used to fly a C402 out of Brownwood TX to San Antonio and the Fedex caravan would take off first. we would have to wait 5 minutes for him to get into radar contact and get released. 20 minutes later we are passing him and climbing throught his altitude.

 

[Future SNA]

150???

Well, I just came back from Wichita, KS this morning at 6,000, OAT was +13 C, and my TAS was 166, and that was with an extremely reduced power setting to increase the TBO's on our engines. 180 seems a little excessive, but I have no doubt with a little higher power setting, you could get 175 easy. BTW, I was at 1300 FTLBS, and 1850 RPM. And also, it was in a straight 208 with the 600 SHP PT-6.

 

[cheezpilot]

"Our 404's would carry 3000 lbs and Ive never seen a C-208 do 180 KTS either! Fastest Ive seen a caravan go is about 150 kts true at the lower altitudes. We used to fly a C402 out of Brownwood TX to San Antonio and the Fedex caravan would take off first. we would have to wait 5 minutes for him to get into radar contact and get released. 20 minutes later we are passing him and climbing throught his altitude."

The 404 I flew had an empty weight of 5200lbs and a max take off of 8000lbs. You do the math. I think 3000lbs in a 404 is a little off. Also, Fed Ex caravans have tattle tales in them. They fly them pulled way back to increase TBO. We did not have them where I flew and I used to pass up Fed Ex caravan in my 208B Caravan. I admitt you usually did about 175-170 TAS but I have seen 180TAS many times with the little true airspeed dial on the ASI. The 402C is faster than the B so I don't doubt your story. Even in a 402B you would be quite a bit faster than a Fed Ex caravan.