What's With Netjets

[Bally]

The company I have worked for for the past nine years purhased a quarter share of a Hawker to supplement our in-house fleet. Netjet's first trip for our CEO was a pick-up at the Executive Terminal in LAS.

The crew mistakingly went to Signature resulting in a 40 minute delay for the boss, while they figured out the error. Upon their arrival to the correct FBO, I personaly greeted the crew and read on their Trip Sheet that the pick-up was in fact The Executive Terminal. I guess Netjet's is used to always going to Signature.

While mistakes do happen, I was amazed at the atitude of the flight crew. With their union pins on their uniform, they did not seem at all concerned about the fact that the CEO of a Fortune 50 Corp was delayed for 40 minutes. By they way. they figured out only after a call from Disptach that they were at the wrong FBO. After taxing to the other side of the field, the crew did not even have the courtesy to acknoledge the mistake and seemed to make little effort to ensure a quick turn . The so-called PIC did not even ask our CEO if there was anything they could get him while he waited on the airplane while they sorted things out.

If this is the culture of Netjet crews, I for the life of me can not understand how owners tolerate this atitude. Has Netjets gotten too big? I sure do hope that this was an isolated experience.

I would be interested to hear from other Netjet pilots.

 

[superfly]

absolutly a minority

I have been with Netjets for 14months and find that crews generally go out of their way to make passengers feel safe and comfortable. Now when a company does get as big as we have become there are always going to be a few bad apples that slip through the cracks. I believe we are a positive hard working and efficient pilot group. Contract negotiations are proceeding painfully slow which has resulted in some bitter attitudes not usually so apparent. I assure you this is an isolated incident. If your CEO called Customer support, the pilots were definately diciplined for their calous manor and a note will be issued on future brief sheets.

superfly

 

[dbarton]

I can assure that this was an isolated incident. Can't explain the attitude of the PIC. I would encourage you to please call 18002285000 and ask for the Hawker Program Manager and tell him what happened. If thisa PIC has that kind of attitude we don't want him either. As a former military and airline pilot I can assure you that in my 7 plus years flying for Netjets I have not flown with a more professional group of pilots.

 

[FracPilot]

I don't fly for NJA, but for one of their competitors. I have to say that the situation you described is definitely not the norm for crews from ANY of the fracs. I don't know how common it is for a crew to go to the wrong FBO, but the nonchalant attitude you experienced is not common. We all know it is an extremely service oriented business. I hope your CEO made an official complaint.

 

[Mach92]

With their union pins on their uniform,



What does the fact they wore a union pin mean? I wear mine every day.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I've been with NJA for many years now and what you explain has happened on very rare occasions. If it was on the brief sheet then it more than likely was the crews fault. Now, as to attitude of the crew, I find that just a little difficult to believe.

As a pilot for this company of yours, a big Fractional sharing some of your flying no doubt makes you a little nervous and perturbed. And understandably so. No matter how you "greeted them" when they were 40 minutes late, I'm sure that they were apologetic and sympathetic. With the many variables in this job, we get quite good at it. We've also been threatened by flight departments when we show up on thier turf. And that too is unfortunate.

I'm sure you wont see this problem again. I hope. However we are number one in the industry because we really do care about safety and courteous and professional service. And unfortunately oversites to occur on rare occasions.

Wish you the best relationship with us at NJA and may we both grow together.

Regards

 

[Bally]

BrnJetFuel,

I am not at all threatened by Netjets. First of all, the company I work for is financially stable and has had a flight department for over 30 years. Second, I plan to be in a class at Southwest Airlines next month.

I was simply suprized to see the atitude of this particular flight crew. Based on the response to my initial message, it appears that Netjet pilots generally take pride in their work, and that this was infact an isolated case.

As far as the comment about the Union Pin on the PIC's uniform. It is my humble opinion that wearing a Teamsters pin in not appropriate for a corporate pilot flying many differerent business people.

When a pilot is flying my CEO, who may not have a great love of the Teamsters or unions in general, and the PIC then provides poor service, the CEO in this case will wonder why his company has expended significant resources to buying a share in an organization with a union that does not, in this one isolated case, understand the ethic that our CEO expects.

When flying an array of high profile business people, it seems to me that the pilot corp should be ultra professional and maintain a low generic profile. No tatoos, earings, or Teamster pins. Remember, you are not an airline, and you have direct face contact with the passengers, many of which run companies that employ hundreds of thousands of workers. You have jobs because people like my boss ELECTED to expend significant resources to buying into your program. It seems to me that for the purpose of keeping your job secure, you would not want of "offend" anyone who may find a pin wearing pilot offensive. Remember, most CEO's and business types are not all that fond of unions.

Just my opinion.

 

[450]

Although some might disagree I believe that is a very sensible post Bally.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Sorry

Sorry, testing to see if my avtar works.

 

[Mach92]

Bally,


Do me a favor when you get to DAL for training make sure you tell everyone on day ONE you hate unions and wearing a "pin" is not seen as professional. The wearing of a union pin is in support of OUR union and OUR brother pilots. Netjets owners fully understand we are UNION before they sign up. Your going to SWA the most unionized airline of them all hmmmm good luck!


Just my opinion

 

[Bally]

Mach92
'
I am not at all against unions. I grew up in Flint MI. Both my parents were in the UAW and worked at Fisher Body. I worked at AC Spark Plug for six years/

Try reading my message again (slowly) on the rationale for maintaining a low profile. It is not at all about being anti-union.

 

[Snakum]

Sorry, testing to see if my avtar works.

Unfortunately ... yes.

Minh

(That dude is SCAREY!)

 

[infoman]

Bally,

I am sorry to read about this oversite with your boss. I am sure the company will find an acceptable solution.

As for the crew. I am sure, if reported, they did a carpet dance of sorts in CMH. That attitude is not the norm. I, and 99% of the pilots here understand the customer is number one. There is simply no excuse for this attitude.

As for my union pin. I believe I will continue to wear it for two reasons. First. I am proud of our union. They are my voice to the company, as well as, my safety net. Second. I believe the customer should know we are represented by a union. The company, and pilots should not hide the fact. I am guesssing your boss knew this before he bought into the program.

You did, unintentionally, insulted all unions when you equated a union pin with a tatoo, or ear ring. The pin represents a great deal more to me, and my family.

Best Wishes to All.

 

[CatYaaak]

Second. I believe the customer should know we are represented by a union.

Interesting that you feel that the customer should know this. Do you really think he cares, except for possibly negatively for the reasons Bally gave? My guess is that he probably knows his boss better than you do, and didn't you yourself say that the customer is #1? To many CEOs, union pins represent labor strife, and I guess I don't understand why you think that showcasing the union you use to represent you in bargaining internally with your management trumps this. Your Union isn't your safety net....not pissing-ff (for whatever reason) your high-paying customers is. Oh well, by sporting those pins there's no doubt who delivered him the service, especially if it were an attitude problem since that's obviously up to the individual.

Perhaps instead of worrying about the customer knowing you are represented by a union (and I still wonder, why should he care), it would be better to worry about who is representing your union to the customer.

 

[CatYaaak]

Bally,

Do me a favor when you get to DAL for training make sure you tell everyone on day ONE you hate unions and wearing a "pin" is not seen as professional. The wearing of a union pin is in support of OUR union and OUR brother pilots. Netjets owners fully understand we are UNION before they sign up.

Think you're rabid enough Mach92? He explained to you that from his experience, "professional" in the corporate world meant low-profile and generic. After 13 years in the corporate world, I agree with him (and I've been in ALPA, so please spare me the speech). While you're off on some thug-rant, HE's thinking about YOUR customer's satisfaction....you know...the guy who ultimately pays your salary and to keep fuel in that mx-hog you fly. Now, what's wrong with that picture?

Don't you get it? The next person you try and berate on this board could also be the guy advising his CEO whether or not to buy a share in your company, or somebody else. Even now, you are making an impression of what your priorities are to any who read this, and know you wear that pin.

 

[infoman]

Cat Yaak,

Why is it that you think of labor strife when you see a union pin. The union is simply my voice when it comes to negotiating a contract.

The clients already know we are a represented group. The people we fly are also seeing that a union represented person is capable of doing a great job. I am proud of the fact that I, and 99% of our group deliver every day. If that pin meant bad service. We would not be in business today. One knuckle head does not represent the group.

NJA success has come, with our pilot group in bulk, wearing the pins. I do not understand why this is bad. Everyday in America union represented people go out there, and do a great job.

The simple fact is, I have worn it 6+ years, and will continue. No client has ever commented. Oh yea, I also wear the American flag on my lapel. I guess this makes me insensative to all people not from the U.S. who I fly.

The safety net issue. It's not me being allowed to piss off the client. The safety net issue, allows me to make safety related decision, and not haveing to worry about being second guest by a none aviation person. This enhances safety.


I will finish this post out with this. I have worked both union, and none union. NJA is successful for one reason. They give me the tools to succeed. That is why I stayed. This place put the fun back into flying.

Best Wishes to All.

 

[Aspiring to be]

Bally,

Friend of mine that does not post on this board request that you post the name of the flight department, the date of the flight and any other info you have about this flight. He will insure that the incidence will be reported to the proper department. Your post has upset him as he finds it difficult to accept that any EJA pilots would act in such a manner. First he thinks the crew would be very concern that the company would find out about the instance and do everything possible with the owners to make amends. EJA will not tolerate such behavior as you described and their jobs would be in danger. Second your remark about the union pins he feels is not called for and not justified. He was wondering if this could be a post from just an anti union pilot. If you feel you can not post this info you can email it to me and I will send it to him.

 

[Apeman]

Aspiring to be,
I finally reached the point of having to respond. Every time you post, it has to do with your friend, yes, the one fired by Options! As an Options pilot, I have never responded before as to why they were fired, but have read way too much about it. In my opinion, they opened their mouths at the wrong time! I will liken it to attending morning or afternoon PT, and hollering out that my DI is a d__k___d! Now does that make any kind of sense? I would definately be doing laps until HE was tired!! Your friend and his buddies decided to open their mouths without knowing their environment first. They did not "check the weather" before calling attention to themselves. They acted stupidly (does not MEAN their stupid), and thus paid dearly. Tell your friend to start talking, requesting, and posting for himself. You come across as to much of an errand boy. No offense!

Apeman

 

[Dep676]

Apeman, you took the words right out of my mouth. You hit it right on the head about being an errand boy. Every post from Aspiring to be, starts with "my friend".

Aspring, if your friend had some balls he would be posting on here himself. No go along and tell him you were bashed on this board. Then come back with his response or better yet tell "your friend" to post here himself.

 

[mike]

GRIZ

Will you tell us if a message is received?

 

[BrnJetFuel]

Griz I'm betting you don't either. If you look at his ratings it says he's a Captain in the BBJ and a GIV. However he says he is waiting for his slot at South West. If he is PIC for such a rocking flight department, why would he leave?

I suspect the "attitudes" are fictitious only to make us at NetJets look bad as perhaps his flight department might be making the common transition over to NetJets permanently.

Seen this one too many times and it's unfortunate that anyone has to lose their jobs when a flight department closes. But I do know that NetJets pretty much always tries to give the displaced flight crews priority for job placement with us.

I'm done with this thread. Could see through this one from the beginning. He's allowed to be disgruntled but shouldn't slander our pilots. It's too small of a world in this industry.

Regards

 

[Muddauber]

Bally,


Do me a favor when you get to DAL for training make sure you tell everyone on day ONE you hate unions and wearing a "pin" is not seen as professional. The wearing of a union pin is in support of OUR union and OUR brother pilots. Netjets owners fully understand we are UNION before they sign up. Your going to SWA the most unionized airline of them all hmmmm good luck!


Just my opinion

Bally won't have too hard a time here finding pilots that don't much care for unions.

 

[CatYaaak]

Also, our line briefs are confidential documents. I can't imagine a NetJets crew just showing them to someone at an FBO...even if he is a pilot associated with one of our customers. That is even more true if the crew actually screwed the pooch on this one. Why on earth would they go around telling folks in the FBO that they screwed up and showing proof of it to anyone in earshot. I have a serious bulls@#t alert going off about this.

So I'm laying down a challenge. Bally, send me a private message with the name of the customer and the date of the flight. I'll contact the powers that be in CMH and let them know that we had a customer that wasn't taken care of properly. If there actually was a problem, our Owner Services department is probably already aware of it and it has been solved.

Your framing of what the original poster said is a joke. He never said they "went around telling", I'm sure they were confronted as to why they were late, and the "someone associated"(as you put it) with your customer was pilot in direct employ of the CEO. Someone contracts you for supplemental lift for their in-house flight department and on the 1st trip you think the people from the Co.'s Av Dept. will just sit at home wondering if the new entity (you) will perform as advertized? Yeah right.

I gotta laugh at your notion that your line briefs are "confidential documents". I hate to tell you this, but an outside company of any type is by nature more of a confidentiality risk that one's own in-house flight dept., and the aforementioned " associate" of the CEO could very well be person who originally provided your company the info of which FBO the CEO always uses, among other things, like his itinerary. If they were late, he'd want to know if the crew had been provided the correct info or was something lost in translation. Of course you're gonna get checked up on for a lot of things. If you're merely being used for supplemental lift for an existing flight dept, believe me, you're continually getting audited on at least the basics of service by them in addition to your own company.

How do I know? Because I've done it as an employee and also on a contract basis. If a crew "screwed the pooch" (especially on a first use of your service) and my boss had expected me to be there to monitor things, yes indeed I would wind up seeing the brief sheet, to help ensure it didn't happen again and give my opinons later.

The bigger joke is your challenge. Supposedly you're some kind self-appointed expert on cofidentiality, but in reality you are a nameless, faceless entity on an internet message board, and you expect him to PM you info on his boss? You represent a breakdown of confidentiality at this point. That you don't realize this speaks volumes as far as how much your head is truly in the corporate world, where most of your customers lie. Your "bull$hit detector's" Additionally, I hardly thinks he needs you (or think he needs you) to go to your employers with a problem. Bally asks a few simple questions, makes some suggestions, and winds up being called a liar, and invited to engage in a pi$$ing contest.

It's a good thing your management understands how these supplemental lift relationships work, and that your attitude doesn't prevail. You'd never renew a contract.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

Hey Griz I think CatYaaak is this guys F/O or at least works with him. Who knows CatYaaak might just be his other alias...kinda hides and then rushes in on the sidelines to his defense.

I wonder if a search through the various threads would show yackup defending his friend?

Care to search?

 

[CatYaaak]

Hey Griz I think CatYaaak is this guys F/O or at least works with him. Who knows CatYaaak might just be his other alias...kinda hides and then rushes in on the sidelines to his defense.

I wonder if a search through the various threads would show yackup defending his friend?

Care to search?

Uh, whatever

But hey, you guys keep on posting. The fact that displaying these attitudes and what your focus is in writing, for anyone to see, certainly doesn't seem to be slowing you down. Very revealing for the uninitiated, and confirming for those of us that are.

Here's a quick, impromptu survey for ya Brn, Griz, and anyone else: Rank the following entities (from highest to lowest) in order of which is most important in your business.

Your company's management, The fractional "owner", Your union.

 

[CatYaaak]

I'm assuming you work for one of our competitors, thus the attitude toward NetJets. I could be wrong, however.

You are right about being wrong. In fact, all your assumptions are as wrong as they can be. Brn's too, which isn't suprising given your tendency to "answer" any point with re-directing the question, or mis-casting what was originally said by others.

For instance, what gave you idea I have an (as you say above) "attitude toward NetJets"? I certainly never derided NetJets at any time, and on the contrary I think they are the best at what they do. Do you assign me this supposed attitude because you can't engage in a discussion without lowering it to a "my dad's better than your dad" fight?

To the original poster your response was to basically call him a liar, then throw down a ridiculous challenge to "prove" to you who he is by publicly divulging Company information. He asked a question about corporate policy, and while most answered well, a few such as yourself automatically turned it into something personal.

I merely pointed out that the premise you used .... that nobody else would ever know the crew's mistake or "be in the loop"....is also patently since I've been involved in the very type of supplemental-lift relationship he explained from the corporate side in different capacities as far back as when you were still PFT-ing for Citation SIC check-outs over there.

 

[irapilot]

Can't help it - I normally don't get involved in these deeply angry frac issues - but I have to ask - regarding: "our line briefs are confidential documents. I can't imagine a NetJets crew just showing them to someone at an FBO..." do you mean the faxed line briefs I see laying in the open everywhere, on desks at FBOs, flight planning rooms, in pilot lounges, etc? It would be interesting to see how many I could "collect" next week. Corporate aviation is not as secure that we think or advertise it to be - I am as guilty as everyone else..........

 

[Cliff]

Take the post for what it is- BS- to the highest order...
Guy is just trying to start some crap..

And he did a good job..

 

[Stickshaker]

ok

Brnjetfuel and Griz,

You two are right on !
I just came home from a trip and read all of this and Bally and Catyaaak are so far out in right field.

 

[Bally]

Irapilot,

Based on the response to my thread, it is evident that overall, Netjet pilots take pride in their work. A very good thing. Like I said, I have no vested interest in Netjets or any fractional since I will have the privledge to be flying for an airline.

I am also impressed and appreciative of all those suggesting contacts to address the incident. Awesome. Again, this shows pride in the Netjet pilot corp.

As far as the confidentiality of Netjet Trip Sheets, all I can say is what I experienced. When the airplane taxied up to the Executive ramp in LAS, I met the airplane and asked the PIC to show me the trip sheet so I could help determine why the airplane was waiting at the wrong FBO. The PIC freely showed me the trip sheet.

Like I said in my original message, mistakes happen. Hec, I have had some winners. The fact that the FBO was in font size 3, and EJA pilots are use to going to Signature is a reasonable set up for an error. My point was the atitude of the crew, which appears to be an anomolly.

As far as the union pin. Relax ya all. It is just my point of view. There are certaintly valid points on both sides. I just take the view point of a low profile. Wearing or not wearing the pin will not destroy the world or solve the Middle East crises.

Lets remember that we are very privledged to be aviaotors no matter where we work, or what union we take pride in. Also remember that there are people foriging for twigs in Pakastan. We have it made!!!