Whats so great about working at a major?

[bigbird]

This is a serious question. Is it really that great to take a pay cut for a long time to go to a major from a regional? Is quality of life much better? Hotels? Schedules? I see people are fighting to get into a place like Delta. Please explain what kind of improvments I will find when leaving a captain job at a regional to go over to the majors. I make about 90k a year and have my weekends and holidays off now. So its tough to get motivated to leave, even though I dont really like my job.

 

[IAHERJ]

My short answer to you is "yes"...

Now, I'll try and give you some meat and potatoes. Your 90K a year is about where you, as a 3rd year FO will end up at Delta(or CAL). I'm not going to talk about the freight guys as I assume you aren't discussing these as you listed the airlines in question as "majors".

The Hotels will be much better. You will fly better equipment and work with better flight attendants, eat real food and have the option of flying a wide variety of aircraft to a wide variety of destinations worldwide. The list is too long to go into here and some things I'd like to say I'll get flamed for by the regional guys lurking on this site.

If you don't really like flying airliners, and are in it for the short term money(like 90K is real money long term); stay at your regional airline. Just to be seriously asking this question to begin with raises questions about your career goals. If you aren't passionate about this career, I say stay where you are until you find another career that pays more. If you really got into aviation to fly the big planes around the world for real money, think about sucking it up and moving to the majors.

IAHERJ

 

[Full of LUV]

This is a serious question. Is it really that great to take a pay cut for a long time to go to a major from a regional? Is quality of life much better? Hotels? Schedules? I see people are fighting to get into a place like Delta. Please explain what kind of improvments I will find when leaving a captain job at a regional to go over to the majors. I make about 90k a year and have my weekends and holidays off now. So its tough to get motivated to leave, even though I dont really like my job.

Do something rewarding with your life....Join the military, start a small technology business, join a major league baseball team. Remember if any job was all joy and roses, it would become a hobby and not a job.

 

[bigbird]

Better hotels and flight attendants would be nice. Im sick of staying at some crappy hotel next to a Waffle House!

 

[Fox-Tree]

Wow!!

Sorry, I just can’t refuse this:

My short answer to you is "yes"...

Now, I'll try and give you some meat and potatoes. Your 90K a year is about where you, as a 3rd year FO will end up at Delta(or CAL). I'm not going to talk about the freight guys (because I’d have to add an extra $40K onto the 3rd year pay number I’m quoting) as I assume you aren't discussing these as you listed the airlines in question as "majors".

The Hotels will be much better. (You’ll stay at the airport Doubletree as opposed to the airport Marriot ) You will fly better equipment and work with better flight attendants (I guess that’s like when the restaurant gives a senior discount to 60 “and better” – That must be what you mean by “better”), eat real food (if you say so) and have the option of flying a wide variety of aircraft to a wide variety of destinations worldwide (unless he ends up at SWA, Jetblue and some of the other majors). The list is too long to go into here and some things I'd like to say I'll get flamed for by the regional guys lurking on this site. (‘cuz so far, nothing you’ve said is going to get you flamed )

If you don't really like flying airliners, and are in it for the short term money(like 90K is real money long term); stay at your regional airline. Just to be seriously asking this question to begin with raises questions about your career goals (no – more like it raises questions about the viability of a career at some major airlines). If you aren't passionate about this career, I say stay where you are until you find another career that pays more. If you really got into aviation to fly the big planes around the world for real money, (you obviously still think its 1965 and you’ll be incredibly disappointed) so think about sucking it up and moving to the majors (if you’re willing to take a pay cut to get a raise sometime down the road in exchange for a worse schedule and missing all the days off you currently get).
Good Luck

 

[Double Shot]

Fox,

you forgot to add NO insurance for 6 months and if you have a family you could qualify for food stamps.

 

[waveflyer]

ehh- it's more like trading the airport comfort inn (or best western)for the airport doubletree.

Everyone says the majors won't be good jobs ever again-- i don't see that lasting. Either way it's a long term decision that does pay off eventually- some places quicker than others- but all eventually, and several times over- So it just depends on your situation. I wouldn't miss my kids grow up for the jump- but there are some where you wouldn't have to miss anymore time than you do- just have to research it.

Biggest thing- it's not what it has been- it's what it will be

Kudos though for not being into Tube Envy or 'above' flying an "RJ". (My "region" was north america, what's yours?) You do good work and IMO deserve more for what you already do.

 

[Sedona16]

Short term your schedule will get worse. Long term, catagoricaly you will see improvements in almost every area. Third year F.O. pay at Delta on the 737 you will be more than fifteen year 700/900 Captain pay at a regional on an hourly basis ($91/hr). Not to mention MUCH better work rules, including cost of living increases, double pay (thats $182/hr) for an inverse assignment should you choose to pursue that. The profit sharing program (5% this year) and automatic 11% retirement given to you by the company in dollar terms should put you above $100/hr by third year on the 737. More if you go to the 767 as many new hires are. Trip rigs, duty rigs, real crew meals on some flights. Eighteen year (top pay at most regionals) is around $99/hr and you are topped out, especially without cost of living increases. At Delta for example you get COLA but can also bid up to a larger aircraft for more pay or stay in the smaller MD or 737 for quality of life. You dont walk down stairs onto an icy ramp and try to pry open your RJ door on a cold aircraft....you walk into a jet way every time with conditioned air already on the airplane 99% of the time. Theres less paperwork at most Majors than at the regional level from my experience. At Delta you dont do a postflight inspection on last flight of the day at most airports....its a MX function.

You dont clean the plane or cross seatbelts on your break (unless you are with JB or similar LCC). You dont fly with 21 year old know it all kids that you have to flight instruct for the rest of your career (always worried about an altitude bust, etc and your ticket/job) while you know they are thinking they will be at a "real" airline in a year or two and dont mind talking about it all day. As mentioned ealier, a variety of flying, etc. In my experience, hotels on average are much nicer with a major. Hyatts and above are not uncommon. It keeps things interesting and fresh. A true long call reserve makes reserve duty much less painfull. Using really good reserve work rules at Delta where you can pick up a trip on a day off, credit above gaurantee and be comped another day off its possible to bank alot of hours with the same exact days off for the month. Works really well. Try that at a regional. Commuter policy and the ability to absolutely reserve the JS if you phone in first up to three days in advance reduces commuter stress alot. I dont know of any regionals that have this. Movies while you deadhead Reserve transparency and the ability to see everybodies schedule....better for keeping the company honest, trip trading with friends and contacting people.

Bottom line, you will potentially be doing this for another 25 to 35 plus more years. Is it worth it to you to suck it up for a couple years to have 20 plus flying with better pay and a better overall job? Do you some day want to fly international with really nice layovers to take you familly along or fly a 787/ A350? If none of the above matters to you then stay at a regional and continue for the "quality of life" you gain the next 36 months.

PS- the next five years at the majors I expect to see some pay rate gains (not year 2000 numbers but decent gains ie 10 to 20%). With the lack of solidarity and all the newbies with SJS at the regionals dont expect much increase in pay or work rules. Lastly, the RJ market is mostly saturated now. Most of what will be happening now will be switching fifty seaters for 76 seaters. If/when Delta gets a hundred seater, some RJs will be parked.

 

[bigbird]

Its the little things Im interested in. Im single and dont mind taking a pay cut for a couple years. I just want to be treated like a human and not a robot. The schedules are killing me. 12-13 hr days, one day I start at 5am then a few days later start at 5pm. My company puts us in a hotel next to a highway and waffle house, nowhere to eat or even go for a walk to stay healthy. I need to start my job search.

 

[hoover]

(like 90K is real money long term);

90K probably puts you ahead of 90% of this country, and yet all you do is complain. Get some perspective.

 

[hoover]

Its the little things Im interested in. Im single and dont mind taking a pay cut for a couple years. I just want to be treated like a human and not a robot. The schedules are killing me. 12-13 hr days, one day I start at 5am then a few days later start at 5pm. My company puts us in a hotel next to a highway and waffle house, nowhere to eat or even go for a walk to stay healthy. I need to start my job search.

Guess you should have done your research before jumping into this line of work. Welcome to the transportation business. It was this way long before you showed up, yet you feel you are being screwed over.carrier.

 

[Sedona16]

Its the little things Im interested in. Im single and dont mind taking a pay cut for a couple years. I just want to be treated like a human and not a robot. The schedules are killing me. 12-13 hr days, one day I start at 5am then a few days later start at 5pm. My company puts us in a hotel next to a highway and waffle house, nowhere to eat or even go for a walk to stay healthy. I need to start my job search.

Well for starters the stage lengths are typically longer at a major and I like this alot better. I would rather do one transcon (which equals one walk around, one set of checklists, etc) get up in cruise, eat a crew meal and read the paper errrr SOP, than multi leg up and downs with alot of unpaid, innefficient time. Thats not to say you wont have that from time to time depending on the airplane and even the 737 can get four legs a day but it is fairly rare from what I have seen. My best case is one leg followed by a 24 hour layover and a reasonable show time with rigs to pay protect. At my last regional I always felt worn out. I feel less worn out and sometimes acually rested now The job is better at a major hands down. You wont get weekends off for a while (well maybe yes on reserve) but overall its a nice gig. Hope that helps. PS dont go to Airways....that would not be good in my opinion. Delta, NWA, Continental, are the legacies I would look at in that order. SWA is a good paying job and you might be interested in that type of flying with good pay relative to the rest of the industry right now. Put an app in there too if you dont mind more legs and quick turns similar to your regional but with alot more pay. UPS/Fedex are excellent choices as well.

 

[IAHERJ]

Sorry, I just can’t refuse this:

My short answer to you is "yes"...

Now, I'll try and give you some meat and potatoes. Your 90K a year is about where you, as a 3rd year FO will end up at Delta(or CAL). I'm not going to talk about the freight guys (because I’d have to add an extra $40K onto the 3rd year pay number I’m quoting) as I assume you aren't discussing these as you listed the airlines in question as "majors".

The Hotels will be much better. (You’ll stay at the airport Doubletree as opposed to the airport Marriot ) You will fly better equipment and work with better flight attendants (I guess that’s like when the restaurant gives a senior discount to 60 “and better” – That must be what you mean by “better”), eat real food (if you say so) and have the option of flying a wide variety of aircraft to a wide variety of destinations worldwide (unless he ends up at SWA, Jetblue and some of the other majors). The list is too long to go into here and some things I'd like to say I'll get flamed for by the regional guys lurking on this site. (‘cuz so far, nothing you’ve said is going to get you flamed )

If you don't really like flying airliners, and are in it for the short term money(like 90K is real money long term); stay at your regional airline. Just to be seriously asking this question to begin with raises questions about your career goals (no – more like it raises questions about the viability of a career at some major airlines). If you aren't passionate about this career, I say stay where you are until you find another career that pays more. If you really got into aviation to fly the big planes around the world for real money, (you obviously still think its 1965 and you’ll be incredibly disappointed) so think about sucking it up and moving to the majors (if you’re willing to take a pay cut to get a raise sometime down the road in exchange for a worse schedule and missing all the days off you currently get).
Good Luck

Thanks for all the nice red corrections teacher. Are you feeling left out because nobody is talking about cargo carriers on this thread? My reference to the cargo carriers was that the money is even better there but you seem to have taken it as a shot. So be it. To try and compare airlines you don't work for to regionals is ludicrous. I refrain from speaking out about quality of life issues at ABX/UPS/FEDEX etc. because I don't know much about the day to day things there. I think maybe you should do the same with regards to the legacy airlines.

 

[IAHERJ]

90K probably puts you ahead of 90% of this country, and yet all you do is complain. Get some perspective.

This is a forum for airline pilots in the Majors section. My point was that settling for 90k in this job when he is single, young and can make the jump where he will top out at more than twice that amount is short sighted. The fact that 90K is better than 90% of this country just says little about where this country is headed(but that is a thread for another time). I'm not complaining about a thing but rather pointing out that the career he got into pays a whole lot better down the road if short term sacrifices are made now. Sorry if I offended you but I compare my pay to the pay of others at other airlines, not other careers.

 

[Flopgut]

You sound like someone who would especially enjoy widebody [international] flying. Really great hotels, interesting places, food, etc. Get south of Mexico and you'll like the women.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

My question to people who discuss this question is, what do you want out of this career? Do you want to fly a big airplane? International? Many different kinds of flying? Home a lot? Biggest paycheck? Live at home? In the industry right now we have something that does not come around very often. Choice... United, Fedex, Regional, Corp, Fractional: everyone needs pilots. What I found important after spending 2 years commuting to PHL was being home, not commuting, and finding a good total compensation package. I found Midwest in my back yard and couldn't be much happier. Except for first year pay of course.

Was it worth it? I left what most people would say is a top level regional carrier at AWAC to go to a small 38 aircraft airline. I say yes much better, but those are my individual circumstances. Good Luck.

DD

 

[FLYLOW22]

I need to start my job search.

Remember that there is life outside the 121 options too. Nice options.

 

[FLYLOW22]

90K probably puts you ahead of 90% of this country, and yet all you do is complain. Get some perspective.

90K is nothing compared to what it needs to be (used to be). Inflation, the weakening dollar...

I, for one, have never compared myself to 90% of this country. I won't start now. I didn't get into this biz to make what 90% of the country makes. 90% of the country hasn't done what I've done to get where I am.

The same applies to the rest of you 10%ers.

 

[catIIIc]

Retirement, even with the A plans going away the large B funds that CAL, UAL, and DAL offer give you a lot more to your retirement then any regional.

 

[The Victors]

This is a serious question. Is it really that great to take a pay cut for a long time to go to a major from a regional? Is quality of life much better? Hotels? Schedules? I see people are fighting to get into a place like Delta. Please explain what kind of improvments I will find when leaving a captain job at a regional to go over to the majors. I make about 90k a year and have my weekends and holidays off now. So its tough to get motivated to leave, even though I dont really like my job.

If you get some offers on your job search, make sure to choose wisely. With oil at or above $100, it might not be a good time to be on the bottom of the list in 08'.