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What's it like to fly a J31/32?
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saabcaptain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2002
- Posts
- 391
Fun airplane, very sensitive in pitch and with most having no autopilot or yaw damper it can get tiring after a long day. Performance is pretty poor but you can use some real short runways and do short approaches which helps add flexibility for ATC. The Garrett engines are deafening so you need good headsets.
The "junkstream" 31 was my first Part 121 aircraft and it was a great first "big" (hahaha) plane.
The "junkstream" 31 was my first Part 121 aircraft and it was a great first "big" (hahaha) plane.
AT7^DRIVER
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2003
- Posts
- 32
The Jetstream was my first "big" airplane also. I flew it for about 3 years and in those three years my "scan" was never any better than it was then. I recently transitioned from a glass cockpit(CRJ) to an airplane that still has too many analog gauges - it was a rude awakening. I had become very lazy with my scan and didn't even realize it.
Back to the Jetstream - I think you'll really enjoy flying it. It will definately make a pilot out of you.
Back to the Jetstream - I think you'll really enjoy flying it. It will definately make a pilot out of you.
C77MD80
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2002
- Posts
- 128
I had a buddy answer this question in an interview.
“Flying the Jetstream is like trying to balance a beach-ball on top of a pencil while naked”. The pilot reps laughed but the HR rep did not and asked “why naked?” He replied, “well it’s embarrassing to fly the Jetstream and that’s the embarrassing part!”
He didn’t get the job!
I have slightly more that 1100 hours in both aircraft before and after my “furlough”. The aircraft is very pitch sensitive and yaw sensitive during training in the simulator. Are you using a simulator at your company? I am guessing you are; most operators do. Know your profiles cold, that way you can concentrate on flying the aircraft. Fly the simulator in a pitch box. That is visualizing a box on the ADI between 10 degrees nose up and about 1-degree nose down. If you are outside these parameters something is wrong, unless you are doing an emergency descent. Make small corrections, always. V1 cuts are the most difficult in this aircraft. Use outside visual references even in low visibility (just a glimpse at the lights, then back at the ADI) scenarios just to keep the aircraft under control. A V1 cut will always be nose 8 degrees, two turns of rudder trim, one turn aileron and a little bit of pitch trim then it will almost fly hands free. The power is a no-brainer, so much easier than a piston. Torque at 100% for take-off (reduced if allowed), 30-40 percent for approaches, double it for single engine. Circling sucks in the sims, always has always will!
It’s a wonderful airplane to hone your skills but you’ll hate it the same for the same reasons!
“Flying the Jetstream is like trying to balance a beach-ball on top of a pencil while naked”. The pilot reps laughed but the HR rep did not and asked “why naked?” He replied, “well it’s embarrassing to fly the Jetstream and that’s the embarrassing part!”
He didn’t get the job!
I have slightly more that 1100 hours in both aircraft before and after my “furlough”. The aircraft is very pitch sensitive and yaw sensitive during training in the simulator. Are you using a simulator at your company? I am guessing you are; most operators do. Know your profiles cold, that way you can concentrate on flying the aircraft. Fly the simulator in a pitch box. That is visualizing a box on the ADI between 10 degrees nose up and about 1-degree nose down. If you are outside these parameters something is wrong, unless you are doing an emergency descent. Make small corrections, always. V1 cuts are the most difficult in this aircraft. Use outside visual references even in low visibility (just a glimpse at the lights, then back at the ADI) scenarios just to keep the aircraft under control. A V1 cut will always be nose 8 degrees, two turns of rudder trim, one turn aileron and a little bit of pitch trim then it will almost fly hands free. The power is a no-brainer, so much easier than a piston. Torque at 100% for take-off (reduced if allowed), 30-40 percent for approaches, double it for single engine. Circling sucks in the sims, always has always will!
It’s a wonderful airplane to hone your skills but you’ll hate it the same for the same reasons!
belchfire
unpredictable member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 27,772
The jetstream displays it's military
lineage in several ways. It is, of the
small turboprops, by far the most
rugged. It is unstable in pitch, neutral
in roll and suffers yaw occilations
that would send the most hardened
V-tail bonanza driver grabbing for the
sicksak. All control forces are heavy
but responsive. Control harmony is
not particulary good, with the rudder
being oversensitive (especially at higher
speeds) except for single engine
operations. Elevator response is good
as long as you don't blank out the
surface (typically low speed, high aoa
with flaps extended) which is to be avoided
anyway. Aileron response is good, but
heavy. Real grease job landings are a
true challenge.
On a cool/cold day the 32 (with strong
engines) can give a respectable 3000
FPM at about 15000 lbs, 16204 being
mtow. Below 8000msl, again with strong
engines it is posible to redline the airframe
before the engines in level flight on a cold
day...go through 10K, and performance
deteriorates rapidly.
On a hot day they won't get out of their
own way.
A challenging airplane to fly on the gauges
especially after your second or third day
of hard IFR and a couple of 9 hour
overnights! 121 rest rules need some help
IMHO.
If the machine is dirtied up for landing,
it takes hella power to stop a descent
and/or recover airspeed, and you need
to keep your eyes moving all the time.
Make small, positive corrections to correct
course or altitude deviations as soon as
they are noticed and you will be okay.
Look away for 2 seconds and she will be
headed somewhere else! Most accidents
have been short of the airport after using
a high rate of descent trying to intercept
the glideslope (three reports, I think)...
most is wrong...I mean one of the biggest
single categorys of accidents...stay focused!
Have fun!
lineage in several ways. It is, of the
small turboprops, by far the most
rugged. It is unstable in pitch, neutral
in roll and suffers yaw occilations
that would send the most hardened
V-tail bonanza driver grabbing for the
sicksak. All control forces are heavy
but responsive. Control harmony is
not particulary good, with the rudder
being oversensitive (especially at higher
speeds) except for single engine
operations. Elevator response is good
as long as you don't blank out the
surface (typically low speed, high aoa
with flaps extended) which is to be avoided
anyway. Aileron response is good, but
heavy. Real grease job landings are a
true challenge.
On a cool/cold day the 32 (with strong
engines) can give a respectable 3000
FPM at about 15000 lbs, 16204 being
mtow. Below 8000msl, again with strong
engines it is posible to redline the airframe
before the engines in level flight on a cold
day...go through 10K, and performance
deteriorates rapidly.
On a hot day they won't get out of their
own way.
A challenging airplane to fly on the gauges
especially after your second or third day
of hard IFR and a couple of 9 hour
overnights! 121 rest rules need some help
IMHO.
If the machine is dirtied up for landing,
it takes hella power to stop a descent
and/or recover airspeed, and you need
to keep your eyes moving all the time.
Make small, positive corrections to correct
course or altitude deviations as soon as
they are noticed and you will be okay.
Look away for 2 seconds and she will be
headed somewhere else! Most accidents
have been short of the airport after using
a high rate of descent trying to intercept
the glideslope (three reports, I think)...
most is wrong...I mean one of the biggest
single categorys of accidents...stay focused!
Have fun!
Last edited:
AAsRedHeadedbro
Havin' fun at the track!
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 141
I will admit that my recollections are now somewhat hazy since I flew the airplane more than ten years ago, but it seems to me that most of the descriptions are spot on.
The airplane's control forces are very light for a 16,000-pound turboprop, but noticably heavier than any GA aircraft I've ever flown.
The airplane is easier to keep pointed in the direction you want and at the altitude you want than any light plane I've flown but it is definitely more of a handful in those same aspects than any other transport aircraft I've flown. In a nutshell, if you come from a GA background, you'll think it's stable. If you come from a transport background, you'll think it's "squirrely". It's all a matter of perspective.
It yaws ever so slightly from side to side constantly, more in rough air, but it doesn't swing quite as much as a V-tail Bonanza. I don't remember it being THAT loose.
While you are flying the sim, do not despair. The sim is WAAAYYY more sensitive and squirrely than the airplane. After you get out of the sim, you'll think the airplane is solid as a rock. Flying the sim, you'll feel as if you are constantly on the verge of losing control. Follow C77MD80's advice: He knows what he's talking about. Use his numbers and fly that ADI. Never look away from that ADI for more than a few seconds (in the sim).
If you are coming from a non-turbine GA background, you will have fun in the airplane. I did. It was my first turboprop and I had the biggest grin on my face every time I flew that thing - good weather AND bad.
The airplane's control forces are very light for a 16,000-pound turboprop, but noticably heavier than any GA aircraft I've ever flown.
The airplane is easier to keep pointed in the direction you want and at the altitude you want than any light plane I've flown but it is definitely more of a handful in those same aspects than any other transport aircraft I've flown. In a nutshell, if you come from a GA background, you'll think it's stable. If you come from a transport background, you'll think it's "squirrely". It's all a matter of perspective.
It yaws ever so slightly from side to side constantly, more in rough air, but it doesn't swing quite as much as a V-tail Bonanza. I don't remember it being THAT loose.
While you are flying the sim, do not despair. The sim is WAAAYYY more sensitive and squirrely than the airplane. After you get out of the sim, you'll think the airplane is solid as a rock. Flying the sim, you'll feel as if you are constantly on the verge of losing control. Follow C77MD80's advice: He knows what he's talking about. Use his numbers and fly that ADI. Never look away from that ADI for more than a few seconds (in the sim).
If you are coming from a non-turbine GA background, you will have fun in the airplane. I did. It was my first turboprop and I had the biggest grin on my face every time I flew that thing - good weather AND bad.
jball2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 371
2000 hrs in the Mighty J32 and I agree whole heartidly..
Flaps 35 and one swift roll of elevator trim!
This is a funny song everyone may enjoy!
to the tune of Gilligan's Island
Just sit right back and you"ll hear the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
we stuff nineteen paying passengers
aboard our tiny ship
no drinks, no stu, no cockpit door
not a single luxury
like Or-ville and wilbur wright
as primitive as can be
as primitive as can be
my armrest's stuck, my back is shot
I have a second job
the engines are not making torque
I wish I flew a Saab
We wrote one up, the boss is mad
its me he wants to fire
I should have stayed in dental school
the majors will not hire
the majors will not hire
the freon's out, the flows are bad
no damper is installed
the passengers are turning green
the new guy is appalled
the pressure spikes, the radar's shot
the brand new ingine quit
I hope I live to tell the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
A-board our ti-ny ship !
Flaps 35 and one swift roll of elevator trim!
This is a funny song everyone may enjoy!
to the tune of Gilligan's Island
Just sit right back and you"ll hear the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
we stuff nineteen paying passengers
aboard our tiny ship
no drinks, no stu, no cockpit door
not a single luxury
like Or-ville and wilbur wright
as primitive as can be
as primitive as can be
my armrest's stuck, my back is shot
I have a second job
the engines are not making torque
I wish I flew a Saab
We wrote one up, the boss is mad
its me he wants to fire
I should have stayed in dental school
the majors will not hire
the majors will not hire
the freon's out, the flows are bad
no damper is installed
the passengers are turning green
the new guy is appalled
the pressure spikes, the radar's shot
the brand new ingine quit
I hope I live to tell the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
A-board our ti-ny ship !
boilerflyer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 18
probablecause
This Lil' Piggy Flew Home
- Joined
- May 3, 2002
- Posts
- 184
Every post sounds right on! The song is great!! I will put a copy of that in the crew room.
I love flying the Jetstream. TRIM-TRIM-TRIM!
While on approach scanning your ASI is as important as your ADI. Set your torque and keep it in your scan also. Pitch for airspeed and power for V/S.
Try using the A/S on the FD when ATC has you maintain a A/S in a decent. It helped me a lot when I was new.
There are two sayings that you can live by while flying the pig:
1) No mater what altitude your at, if you can see the numbers you can make it!
2) The Jetstream is the only airplane you can jump out of, and it will still beat you to the ground!
I love flying the Jetstream. TRIM-TRIM-TRIM!
While on approach scanning your ASI is as important as your ADI. Set your torque and keep it in your scan also. Pitch for airspeed and power for V/S.
Try using the A/S on the FD when ATC has you maintain a A/S in a decent. It helped me a lot when I was new.
There are two sayings that you can live by while flying the pig:
1) No mater what altitude your at, if you can see the numbers you can make it!
2) The Jetstream is the only airplane you can jump out of, and it will still beat you to the ground!
BoilerUP
Citation style...
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Posts
- 5,311
I can't tell ya what it's like to fly, but I can tell you what its like to ride on....
LOUD AS HELL!
So loud in fact, it broke the right speaker in my Lightspeed 20XL when I was sitting in 1B plugged in up front. Some of the 3C jetpigs have leaky door seals, and you can hear a constant whistle if you are sitting in the back.
I have had pilots tell me that if you can fly *and land* the Jetstream, anything else is a piece of cake. Pilots seem to really like it. Good luck!
LOUD AS HELL!
So loud in fact, it broke the right speaker in my Lightspeed 20XL when I was sitting in 1B plugged in up front. Some of the 3C jetpigs have leaky door seals, and you can hear a constant whistle if you are sitting in the back.
I have had pilots tell me that if you can fly *and land* the Jetstream, anything else is a piece of cake. Pilots seem to really like it. Good luck!
BoilerUP
Citation style...
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Posts
- 5,311
Not the esteemed Belchfire, but I do believe my very own Corporate Airlines is hiring. Do a search of the last 30 days, you should find a very nice thread about being a pilot for Corporate.
www.corporateairlines.com
Is Corpex the only 121 carrier still using the Super Jetstream 31?
www.corporateairlines.com
Is Corpex the only 121 carrier still using the Super Jetstream 31?
avpro91
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Posts
- 205
Been flying the "wetdream" for over a year now. Agree with everything that's been said. Wasn't too excited about it when i first got the job, but glad i took it...love flying it. Fun airplane, keeps you on your toes...trim...trim...trim.
Hire_me Corporate airlines is hiring, the guys next door are too CFM...www.flycfm.com
Hire_me Corporate airlines is hiring, the guys next door are too CFM...www.flycfm.com
gopherflight
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2003
- Posts
- 24
My favorite is the spar running through the middle of the cabin floor, with a flashing "caution" light above it. Passengers would look up to see the flashing light and trip over the spar!
How about the "reinforced" curtain cockpit "door". No terrorist can get through that thing to get access to the cockpit! Riiight!!!!
How about the "reinforced" curtain cockpit "door". No terrorist can get through that thing to get access to the cockpit! Riiight!!!!
belchfire
unpredictable member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 27,772
boilerup...esteemed? hehehe. I miss
u guys! did they ever renew the lease?
hire_me
Corporate Airlines is doing some hiring...
don't know how much more, or how many.
I would recommend that you search for the
thread on corpex and read it, particularly
throttlejockys brilliant essay on the
wonders of working there, b-4 considering
any commitment to that establishment.
That said, there are a few worse places,
so be careful! I used to think Mesa was,
but at least they are getting their raises!
I would send them a resume...if nothing else
just for the practice. Going through any
interview in this time is a good thing! If you
do get a job, consider your time there as
an indentured servitude toward getting a
job somewhere (almost anywhere) else,
keep your resume current and out there
in front of God and everyone, because most
2nd/3rd year FO's make more than our CA's.
We have CA's leaving to go to other
regionals for that reason, and lots of FO's
bailing also.
Time was, when bigger airlines would hire
people with 1000 hrs PIC in the -32, it wasn't
a bad deal. We now have people that have
been FO's for 2 years, a CA for one year and
are still on reserve...used to be able to get
that 1000 hrs in 18-26 months. Management
still looks at the pilot pool as a stepping stone
not a career...and deals with us on that level.
Also, look up posts on Pan Am & Boston-maine
airways. From what I've read, they are even
worse, but I don't want to pissoff any of those
guys/gals, so check with them.
If you want to move to Tennesee, Corporate
Flight Management operates the -32 but they
are on call alot. I don't know who to tell you
to talk to about them. They started corpex,
but there has been a falling out among the
theives I believe...I know that they used to
pay a lot more...I don't know what they do
now.
If you have the time to get on with an outfit
that uses rj's, do it. The upgrade may or may
not take longer, but your wallet will be far less
emaciated in the long run.
Good Luck!
u guys! did they ever renew the lease?
hire_me
Corporate Airlines is doing some hiring...
don't know how much more, or how many.
I would recommend that you search for the
thread on corpex and read it, particularly
throttlejockys brilliant essay on the
wonders of working there, b-4 considering
any commitment to that establishment.
That said, there are a few worse places,
so be careful! I used to think Mesa was,
but at least they are getting their raises!
I would send them a resume...if nothing else
just for the practice. Going through any
interview in this time is a good thing! If you
do get a job, consider your time there as
an indentured servitude toward getting a
job somewhere (almost anywhere) else,
keep your resume current and out there
in front of God and everyone, because most
2nd/3rd year FO's make more than our CA's.
We have CA's leaving to go to other
regionals for that reason, and lots of FO's
bailing also.
Time was, when bigger airlines would hire
people with 1000 hrs PIC in the -32, it wasn't
a bad deal. We now have people that have
been FO's for 2 years, a CA for one year and
are still on reserve...used to be able to get
that 1000 hrs in 18-26 months. Management
still looks at the pilot pool as a stepping stone
not a career...and deals with us on that level.
Also, look up posts on Pan Am & Boston-maine
airways. From what I've read, they are even
worse, but I don't want to pissoff any of those
guys/gals, so check with them.
If you want to move to Tennesee, Corporate
Flight Management operates the -32 but they
are on call alot. I don't know who to tell you
to talk to about them. They started corpex,
but there has been a falling out among the
theives I believe...I know that they used to
pay a lot more...I don't know what they do
now.
If you have the time to get on with an outfit
that uses rj's, do it. The upgrade may or may
not take longer, but your wallet will be far less
emaciated in the long run.
Good Luck!
Last edited:
BoilerUP
Citation style...
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Posts
- 5,311
belchfire said:
The lease is "month by month" now. It seems we learn more about our future in LAF from reading the Journal and Courier than we hear from Larry or Thomas. That's where we heard STL was cutting back the hub, thats where we heard we were losing the midday flight back in August. We have been hearing constantly louder rumors of 3C flying out of IND to SBN and EVV, so *maybe* the company has some sort of growth planned after they do axe us.
If our lazy-azz airport manager would quit wasting time, she *might* be able to recruit somebody to fly the 328 jet or an EMB-135 in here, such as CHQ or Skyway or ACA. If LAF had a small jet that flew to a major hub (ORD, CVG, ATL, MEM, DTW, PHL, etc), I think we could be able to provide good loads. Windy City would be a great addition too, but all their planes fly right over us coming from IND to MDW.
Maybe 3C will start flying those 135s everybody was talking about a 3 months ago
C77MD80
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2002
- Posts
- 128
Murray Aviation is another J31/32 operator. I am currently flying a J31 and in a few weeks we will have a J32 on line, all part 135. The company is also creating a cargo version of the J31/32 and that should "test" fly in another month. We have a contract for a NASCAR team as well as Chrysler Corp. Things are not too bad. On call but not flying too much until perhaps the freighter is on-line! Murray is traditionally a freight company and that shows in some areas but overall they haven't been too bad. It is still a stepping stone company. I will leave fairly soon and that will leave an opening. It helps to have PIC in the A/C.
There is another company out of Charlotte (I think) NC. They have the Sirrius contract and operate 135.
Also there is Corp out of Tenn. They run a pretty descent operation after speaking with one of their pilots.
There is another company out of Charlotte (I think) NC. They have the Sirrius contract and operate 135.
Also there is Corp out of Tenn. They run a pretty descent operation after speaking with one of their pilots.
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