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What's it like to fly a J31/32?
- Thread starter hire_me
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saabcaptain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2002
- Posts
- 391
Fun airplane, very sensitive in pitch and with most having no autopilot or yaw damper it can get tiring after a long day. Performance is pretty poor but you can use some real short runways and do short approaches which helps add flexibility for ATC. The Garrett engines are deafening so you need good headsets.
The "junkstream" 31 was my first Part 121 aircraft and it was a great first "big" (hahaha) plane.
The "junkstream" 31 was my first Part 121 aircraft and it was a great first "big" (hahaha) plane.
AT7^DRIVER
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2003
- Posts
- 32
The Jetstream was my first "big" airplane also. I flew it for about 3 years and in those three years my "scan" was never any better than it was then. I recently transitioned from a glass cockpit(CRJ) to an airplane that still has too many analog gauges - it was a rude awakening. I had become very lazy with my scan and didn't even realize it.
Back to the Jetstream - I think you'll really enjoy flying it. It will definately make a pilot out of you.
Back to the Jetstream - I think you'll really enjoy flying it. It will definately make a pilot out of you.
C77MD80
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2002
- Posts
- 128
I had a buddy answer this question in an interview.
“Flying the Jetstream is like trying to balance a beach-ball on top of a pencil while naked”. The pilot reps laughed but the HR rep did not and asked “why naked?” He replied, “well it’s embarrassing to fly the Jetstream and that’s the embarrassing part!”
He didn’t get the job!
I have slightly more that 1100 hours in both aircraft before and after my “furlough”. The aircraft is very pitch sensitive and yaw sensitive during training in the simulator. Are you using a simulator at your company? I am guessing you are; most operators do. Know your profiles cold, that way you can concentrate on flying the aircraft. Fly the simulator in a pitch box. That is visualizing a box on the ADI between 10 degrees nose up and about 1-degree nose down. If you are outside these parameters something is wrong, unless you are doing an emergency descent. Make small corrections, always. V1 cuts are the most difficult in this aircraft. Use outside visual references even in low visibility (just a glimpse at the lights, then back at the ADI) scenarios just to keep the aircraft under control. A V1 cut will always be nose 8 degrees, two turns of rudder trim, one turn aileron and a little bit of pitch trim then it will almost fly hands free. The power is a no-brainer, so much easier than a piston. Torque at 100% for take-off (reduced if allowed), 30-40 percent for approaches, double it for single engine. Circling sucks in the sims, always has always will!
It’s a wonderful airplane to hone your skills but you’ll hate it the same for the same reasons!
“Flying the Jetstream is like trying to balance a beach-ball on top of a pencil while naked”. The pilot reps laughed but the HR rep did not and asked “why naked?” He replied, “well it’s embarrassing to fly the Jetstream and that’s the embarrassing part!”
He didn’t get the job!
I have slightly more that 1100 hours in both aircraft before and after my “furlough”. The aircraft is very pitch sensitive and yaw sensitive during training in the simulator. Are you using a simulator at your company? I am guessing you are; most operators do. Know your profiles cold, that way you can concentrate on flying the aircraft. Fly the simulator in a pitch box. That is visualizing a box on the ADI between 10 degrees nose up and about 1-degree nose down. If you are outside these parameters something is wrong, unless you are doing an emergency descent. Make small corrections, always. V1 cuts are the most difficult in this aircraft. Use outside visual references even in low visibility (just a glimpse at the lights, then back at the ADI) scenarios just to keep the aircraft under control. A V1 cut will always be nose 8 degrees, two turns of rudder trim, one turn aileron and a little bit of pitch trim then it will almost fly hands free. The power is a no-brainer, so much easier than a piston. Torque at 100% for take-off (reduced if allowed), 30-40 percent for approaches, double it for single engine. Circling sucks in the sims, always has always will!
It’s a wonderful airplane to hone your skills but you’ll hate it the same for the same reasons!
belchfire
unpredictable member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 27,771
The jetstream displays it's military
lineage in several ways. It is, of the
small turboprops, by far the most
rugged. It is unstable in pitch, neutral
in roll and suffers yaw occilations
that would send the most hardened
V-tail bonanza driver grabbing for the
sicksak. All control forces are heavy
but responsive. Control harmony is
not particulary good, with the rudder
being oversensitive (especially at higher
speeds) except for single engine
operations. Elevator response is good
as long as you don't blank out the
surface (typically low speed, high aoa
with flaps extended) which is to be avoided
anyway. Aileron response is good, but
heavy. Real grease job landings are a
true challenge.
On a cool/cold day the 32 (with strong
engines) can give a respectable 3000
FPM at about 15000 lbs, 16204 being
mtow. Below 8000msl, again with strong
engines it is posible to redline the airframe
before the engines in level flight on a cold
day...go through 10K, and performance
deteriorates rapidly.
On a hot day they won't get out of their
own way.
A challenging airplane to fly on the gauges
especially after your second or third day
of hard IFR and a couple of 9 hour
overnights! 121 rest rules need some help
IMHO.
If the machine is dirtied up for landing,
it takes hella power to stop a descent
and/or recover airspeed, and you need
to keep your eyes moving all the time.
Make small, positive corrections to correct
course or altitude deviations as soon as
they are noticed and you will be okay.
Look away for 2 seconds and she will be
headed somewhere else! Most accidents
have been short of the airport after using
a high rate of descent trying to intercept
the glideslope (three reports, I think)...
most is wrong...I mean one of the biggest
single categorys of accidents...stay focused!
Have fun!
lineage in several ways. It is, of the
small turboprops, by far the most
rugged. It is unstable in pitch, neutral
in roll and suffers yaw occilations
that would send the most hardened
V-tail bonanza driver grabbing for the
sicksak. All control forces are heavy
but responsive. Control harmony is
not particulary good, with the rudder
being oversensitive (especially at higher
speeds) except for single engine
operations. Elevator response is good
as long as you don't blank out the
surface (typically low speed, high aoa
with flaps extended) which is to be avoided
anyway. Aileron response is good, but
heavy. Real grease job landings are a
true challenge.
On a cool/cold day the 32 (with strong
engines) can give a respectable 3000
FPM at about 15000 lbs, 16204 being
mtow. Below 8000msl, again with strong
engines it is posible to redline the airframe
before the engines in level flight on a cold
day...go through 10K, and performance
deteriorates rapidly.
On a hot day they won't get out of their
own way.
A challenging airplane to fly on the gauges
especially after your second or third day
of hard IFR and a couple of 9 hour
overnights! 121 rest rules need some help
IMHO.
If the machine is dirtied up for landing,
it takes hella power to stop a descent
and/or recover airspeed, and you need
to keep your eyes moving all the time.
Make small, positive corrections to correct
course or altitude deviations as soon as
they are noticed and you will be okay.
Look away for 2 seconds and she will be
headed somewhere else! Most accidents
have been short of the airport after using
a high rate of descent trying to intercept
the glideslope (three reports, I think)...
most is wrong...I mean one of the biggest
single categorys of accidents...stay focused!
Have fun!
Last edited:
AAsRedHeadedbro
Havin' fun at the track!
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 141
I will admit that my recollections are now somewhat hazy since I flew the airplane more than ten years ago, but it seems to me that most of the descriptions are spot on.
The airplane's control forces are very light for a 16,000-pound turboprop, but noticably heavier than any GA aircraft I've ever flown.
The airplane is easier to keep pointed in the direction you want and at the altitude you want than any light plane I've flown but it is definitely more of a handful in those same aspects than any other transport aircraft I've flown. In a nutshell, if you come from a GA background, you'll think it's stable. If you come from a transport background, you'll think it's "squirrely". It's all a matter of perspective.
It yaws ever so slightly from side to side constantly, more in rough air, but it doesn't swing quite as much as a V-tail Bonanza. I don't remember it being THAT loose.
While you are flying the sim, do not despair. The sim is WAAAYYY more sensitive and squirrely than the airplane. After you get out of the sim, you'll think the airplane is solid as a rock. Flying the sim, you'll feel as if you are constantly on the verge of losing control. Follow C77MD80's advice: He knows what he's talking about. Use his numbers and fly that ADI. Never look away from that ADI for more than a few seconds (in the sim).
If you are coming from a non-turbine GA background, you will have fun in the airplane. I did. It was my first turboprop and I had the biggest grin on my face every time I flew that thing - good weather AND bad.
The airplane's control forces are very light for a 16,000-pound turboprop, but noticably heavier than any GA aircraft I've ever flown.
The airplane is easier to keep pointed in the direction you want and at the altitude you want than any light plane I've flown but it is definitely more of a handful in those same aspects than any other transport aircraft I've flown. In a nutshell, if you come from a GA background, you'll think it's stable. If you come from a transport background, you'll think it's "squirrely". It's all a matter of perspective.
It yaws ever so slightly from side to side constantly, more in rough air, but it doesn't swing quite as much as a V-tail Bonanza. I don't remember it being THAT loose.
While you are flying the sim, do not despair. The sim is WAAAYYY more sensitive and squirrely than the airplane. After you get out of the sim, you'll think the airplane is solid as a rock. Flying the sim, you'll feel as if you are constantly on the verge of losing control. Follow C77MD80's advice: He knows what he's talking about. Use his numbers and fly that ADI. Never look away from that ADI for more than a few seconds (in the sim).
If you are coming from a non-turbine GA background, you will have fun in the airplane. I did. It was my first turboprop and I had the biggest grin on my face every time I flew that thing - good weather AND bad.
jball2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 371
2000 hrs in the Mighty J32 and I agree whole heartidly..
Flaps 35 and one swift roll of elevator trim!
This is a funny song everyone may enjoy!
to the tune of Gilligan's Island
Just sit right back and you"ll hear the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
we stuff nineteen paying passengers
aboard our tiny ship
no drinks, no stu, no cockpit door
not a single luxury
like Or-ville and wilbur wright
as primitive as can be
as primitive as can be
my armrest's stuck, my back is shot
I have a second job
the engines are not making torque
I wish I flew a Saab
We wrote one up, the boss is mad
its me he wants to fire
I should have stayed in dental school
the majors will not hire
the majors will not hire
the freon's out, the flows are bad
no damper is installed
the passengers are turning green
the new guy is appalled
the pressure spikes, the radar's shot
the brand new ingine quit
I hope I live to tell the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
A-board our ti-ny ship !
Flaps 35 and one swift roll of elevator trim!
This is a funny song everyone may enjoy!
to the tune of Gilligan's Island
Just sit right back and you"ll hear the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
we stuff nineteen paying passengers
aboard our tiny ship
no drinks, no stu, no cockpit door
not a single luxury
like Or-ville and wilbur wright
as primitive as can be
as primitive as can be
my armrest's stuck, my back is shot
I have a second job
the engines are not making torque
I wish I flew a Saab
We wrote one up, the boss is mad
its me he wants to fire
I should have stayed in dental school
the majors will not hire
the majors will not hire
the freon's out, the flows are bad
no damper is installed
the passengers are turning green
the new guy is appalled
the pressure spikes, the radar's shot
the brand new ingine quit
I hope I live to tell the tale
of a typical Jetstream trip
A-board our ti-ny ship !
boilerflyer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 18
probablecause
This Lil' Piggy Flew Home
- Joined
- May 3, 2002
- Posts
- 184
Every post sounds right on! The song is great!! I will put a copy of that in the crew room.
I love flying the Jetstream. TRIM-TRIM-TRIM!
While on approach scanning your ASI is as important as your ADI. Set your torque and keep it in your scan also. Pitch for airspeed and power for V/S.
Try using the A/S on the FD when ATC has you maintain a A/S in a decent. It helped me a lot when I was new.
There are two sayings that you can live by while flying the pig:
1) No mater what altitude your at, if you can see the numbers you can make it!
2) The Jetstream is the only airplane you can jump out of, and it will still beat you to the ground!
I love flying the Jetstream. TRIM-TRIM-TRIM!
While on approach scanning your ASI is as important as your ADI. Set your torque and keep it in your scan also. Pitch for airspeed and power for V/S.
Try using the A/S on the FD when ATC has you maintain a A/S in a decent. It helped me a lot when I was new.
There are two sayings that you can live by while flying the pig:
1) No mater what altitude your at, if you can see the numbers you can make it!
2) The Jetstream is the only airplane you can jump out of, and it will still beat you to the ground!
BoilerUP
Citation style...
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Posts
- 5,311
I can't tell ya what it's like to fly, but I can tell you what its like to ride on....
LOUD AS HELL!
So loud in fact, it broke the right speaker in my Lightspeed 20XL when I was sitting in 1B plugged in up front. Some of the 3C jetpigs have leaky door seals, and you can hear a constant whistle if you are sitting in the back.
I have had pilots tell me that if you can fly *and land* the Jetstream, anything else is a piece of cake. Pilots seem to really like it. Good luck!
LOUD AS HELL!
So loud in fact, it broke the right speaker in my Lightspeed 20XL when I was sitting in 1B plugged in up front. Some of the 3C jetpigs have leaky door seals, and you can hear a constant whistle if you are sitting in the back.
I have had pilots tell me that if you can fly *and land* the Jetstream, anything else is a piece of cake. Pilots seem to really like it. Good luck!
BoilerUP
Citation style...
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Posts
- 5,311
Not the esteemed Belchfire, but I do believe my very own Corporate Airlines is hiring. Do a search of the last 30 days, you should find a very nice thread about being a pilot for Corporate.
www.corporateairlines.com
Is Corpex the only 121 carrier still using the Super Jetstream 31?
www.corporateairlines.com
Is Corpex the only 121 carrier still using the Super Jetstream 31?
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