What's going on at Flight Express?

[YaMama]

Hey everybody,

What's the latest at FLX for hiring, class dates, etc? And how much interview prep would be wise? I've been out of flying for about 18 months now, but could probably swing a few hours in an Arrow, and obviously some sim time/study time - depending how much patience they would have for an out-of-currency fool like myself.

Btw, I'm an 1800 hour CFI.

 

[RSixer]

Send'em your resume.

From what I understand they are hiring like hotcakes, submit your resume online (www.flightexpress.com). Gary Hilyer will most likely call within the hour, you can ask him those questions then.

 

[Aviator]

I would suggest studying everything on this site:

http://www.austincollins.com/fex.shtml

Gouge:

http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilotsample/flight_express.html

 

[Boris Badenov]

One wag on FI once said "If you can fog a mirror, you can pass FLX training". I'm not sure it's that easy, but I didn't think that the groundschool was terribly difficult. It's not studying for an FAA written, but it's not astronaught training either. Austin definitely knows his stuff, but he doesn't go out of his way to make it hard on you. That said, it seems like they're having about a 50% pass rate lately. This may be due to the cattle call approach to hiring. Basically, call Gary (Recruiter, defacto assistant DO), if you have the times and you don't go out of your way to show that you're a jerk on the phone, you'll be given a date to show up for training.

The 210 is a nice flying airplane, and I don't think they're doing the sim anymore, so I would concentrate on being ready for groundschool. Download all of Austin's "very easy guides" (see link above). I had the most trouble with 135 duty/flight time limitations and the 135 departure/alternate mins. YMMV.

As far as the job, it's good, if you know what you're getting in to. If it's legal, you're going. If you want to make "a lot" of money (~35k, before taxes), you're going to be at work a lot. You'll get used to sleeping in recliners. On the long runs, it's basically get up, go to work, come home, eat, sleep, repeat. Getting days off is extremely tough. If you plan on having a long run, you might want to to renew your medical, register your car, get your driver's license renewed, etc etc BEFORE you show up for training.

All of that aside, the company treats you well. There's no pushing to fly with broken airplanes, and if the weather really is too bad to go, you won't get pushed there either. If you show up for work and do a decent job, the DO will try to accomodate you as much as is possible. There's definitely nothing shady or underhanded about the operation. Just a lot of work, but a lot of fun, too.

 

[YaMama]

Thanks for the info. What do people usually wash out of training for?

 

[Boris Badenov]

In my class, one guy washed himself out because he basically seemed to be trying to get on as a part time second job. He was always leaving early to pick up his kids, didn't seem to have time to study the materials, etc. Nice guy, but just didn't seem to have the time for the training. Two other guys washed out because they couldn't speak english well enough. They got through the ground portion fine, but when they got in the airplane they apparently had trouble reading (or comprehending?) clearances. They were both also good pilots and nice guys.

I've heard stories from other classes about washouts. Mostly they seem to be the "insufficiently motivated" types, but I've heard of maybe one or two guys who just couldn't fly the airplane. They say, and I think correctly so, that if you can pass a commercial instrument checkride, you can pass the 135 checkride.

As far as not having flown for a while, I hadn't flown for about 2 years before my groundschool. My Part 135 PIC ride was also my BFR and IPC. In retrospect, I would probably go back and get a few hours in something (anything IFR) before going, because I think I really pushed my luck. That said, Austin or Matt (the chief pilot, who also gives checkrides) will do their legal best to give you slack if you don't give them an obvious and glaring reason to fail you.

They make it sound extremely intimidating when you first show up. This is to make sure you take it seriously. If you do take it seriously and actually study, you'll be fine.

Incidently, for posterity in case anyone is interested, I got the call for Baron upgrade within 3 days of my one year anniversary. Rumor has it this may be coming down slightly, to maybe around 8-10 months. Probably won't be back to 6 months anytime soon, though.

 

[drpilot]

Bases and moving on

Hello,
I have a few Question for someone currently flying at FE. I have also thought of apply their, I have the hours, but I have not been fying all that much in the last year. I am looking for a good place to work, and have read many good things about FE.
What bases seem to come open most offen? Why do they come open? Pilots that are moving on where do they go?
Appreciate the information
dr

 

[Boris Badenov]

It's pretty much a crapshoot with which bases come open. The only reliable thing I can tell you is it's generally harder to get Florida than other places. My *impression* is that some of the one or two plane bases come open most often. Places like Little Rock and Jackson. Presumably they come open because no one wants to be there. I can personally verify that the entire city of Jackson, MS is in the wrong part of town, for example.

In my class, one guy went to Cinci (which has since shrunk, and he got displaced to Orlando, I think). One guy got Jacksonville, FL, and I got Jackson, MS. I got Jackson because I scored lowest on the final written of all the guys who made it through training. You should consider this on those nights when you really want to watch HBO instead of studying for the written stuff. All that said, the movement in this company is such that you're likely to be able to get any base you want within 3-6 months, and probably more like 1-2.

People seeem to go to all sorts of places. CHQ, Commutair, Mesa, Part 91 citation job, part 135 lear job, part 135 421 job, aerial mapping in a Conquest, flying cargo in a caravan. Those are just the ones I remember personally. There are a lot of FLX alums on this system...do a search for threads and you'll likely see what a lot of people are doing 5 years down the road.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[mcjohn]

Good thread. Don't forget about Ram Air. They tend have a quicker upgrade to multi (hear say.) They start you in a Lance and supposedly have you in a 402 in 6 to 8 months. Also, they are a M-F operation. Weekends off. 2nd year pay is supposed to be good. Anyone have details on getting in a Mountain Air Cargo Caravan? I hear they are a good company.

 

[Boris Badenov]

FLX shuts down on the weekend too. I think Ram upgrades even faster than that. I've heard a month or two for the twin? On the other hand, their daily pay is $85. If you don't care too much about "having a life", you can make $140 at FLX. Ameriflight and Airnet pay more than Ram, but less than FLX, I think, and have an immediate twin position. Food for thought.

I will say this, though. I've heard a lot of horror stories about management at 135 operators, and I have nothing substantively negative to say about FLX's higher-ups. I've been treated well, and there have been no surprises.

 

[drpilot]

Thanks
dr

 

[capt. megadeth]

Gary's Back....? He left and went to AirTran for a while.. Where is Ernst?

 

[Boris Badenov]

Gary's been back for a couple of years now, I think. He's still recruiting away. Ernst is still D.O., and I suspect he hasn't changed much, either. We probably still fly exactly the same planes with exactly the same equipment. FLX is a bright star of constancy in an otherwise changing world.

Keep a seat warm for us at Brown, we'll see you in about a decade (we hope).

 

[labbats]

Ernst, Austin and the whole crew are a class act. Treated me very well and MX was good enough to make me feel safe crossing the everglades single engine every night. Barebones equipment (no gps, autopilot, DME) but the 210 is easy to fly. I guess some planes have gps or DME, it's been a while.

As far as being pushed to fly in weather, that is sort of the mentality. If you've never been blinded by lightning before you hang it up at FLX, then you've been on day runs. I'll never forget when they tried to tell me to split the two "level 5 or 6s" hovering over Tampa. Of course this is all in a single engine cessna with absolutely no WX equipment. I waited them out, and they can stick it where their unlicensed dispatchers sit as far as that is concerned. Stand your ground if you feel unsafe, but keep an open mind because like any frieght job there will be growing pains flying around inclement weather.

 

[Boris Badenov]

There was a serious shake up in the dispatch department a couple of years back (before my time). From what I understand they used to be a lot more uh "demanding". Like I say, I've never had a problem. One time they had me call Matt, and he said "you're the pic, I back you up all the way". Never heard about it again. Obviously it's a balancing act, you can't sit on the ground when there's a cloud in the sky, but I've never felt pressured to do anything really dangerous.

A few planes have DME. Fewer have GPS, Loran, or RNAV, all left over from when they bought them. When they break they get removed. I fly without a handheld, but if I had it to do over again, I'd probably spring for one.

 

[Bryan D]

I'm eyeballing Ram Air and Flight Express. I went to an interview a week ago with a 135 operator (not cargo), whom I shall not name, and I was asked if I felt comfortable flying in "heavy weather". I asked what "heavy weather" was defined as and he said thunderstorms or ice. I told him I have no problem flying in non-convective weather but, I would not fly in ice with a airplane that was not equipped for it and could not carry it. Which leads me up to my question; What is the worst weather Flight Express would expect someone to fly in? I'm not a wuss but I'm no Kamakazee pilot either.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Well, it's hard to put it in black and white terms. One of the more recent hires refused to fly in icing (in a known icing equipped aircraft). She got a visit from one of the management types who went flying with her, she started flying in ice, and that was the end of it (or so I'm told).

Obviously, if you were in a non icing approved aircraft, you will not be expected to fly in ice. In fact, you'd get yourself in big trouble if management found out. They don't want the FAA's attention any more than you do, and you can set your watch on getting ramped within a week or two of any kind of incident, however minor.

Not something to worry about, because it's extremely unlikely. All of the ice-equipped airplanes are kept up north (where the ice is), and there are plenty of them. I've never even seen a non-ice equipped airplane here (I'm in CPS). Most of them are TKS, which works so well it's about as close to "turn it on and forget it" as you can get. Some have boots, but I've never had to fly one of those in ice. Basically, the company makes it work so that you have a TKS plane if you're likely to be in ice.

Thunderstorms are a little bit more grey. I've refused to fly two or three times for CBs. One time was when I was relatively new, and in retrospect, I probably could have gone around it. I called dispatch, they called the chief pilot, he called me and after explaining the situation, he told me that I should depart when I felt comfortable. I did, and I never heard anything else about it. The other two times it didn't even go that far. They can see the radar just like you can, and you are absolutely NOT expected to penetrate serious storms.

In practice, different people have different comfort levels. Yes, there definitely are guys who believe in "don't DEVIATE, PENETRATE, or you'll be LATE", but not because the company pushes them to. There are some who will fly 100 miles out of their way to avoid level 2s and 3s, and they still work here. I'm probably somewhere in between the two. It's definitely something you pick up as you do it.

Will you scare yourself at some point? Probably, especially at first. Will you be in real danger? I don't think so. To my knowledge, we've never lost an aircraft to weather. In my experience, the weather that is seriously dangerous makes it extremely obvious to you that it's dangerous and practically begs you to make a different choice.

 

[YaMama]

Good stuff, Boris - keep it coming!

I am mildly surprised that strike finders wouldn't be cost effective for an operation like Flight Express, especially around these parts (southeast U.S.) Does ATC mind helping you around t-storms when necessary?

It appears that FLX is mostly a daylight hours operation? I'm definitely more comfortable taking on serious weather during the day ... plus I just enjoy daytime flying more.

I was reading some older threads about Flight Express - people saying the D.O. took a dislike to them and was making their lives miserable for no good reason ...?

 

[mcjohn]

Very informative. Thanks. A buddy of mine flew for Ram and he's told me some stories but I think he wanted to get there more himself personally. Not pushed by the company. I was in total awe of his arrival.....in the middle of a hurricane that had just been down graded to a tropical depression!

I'm not a wuss but I'm no Kamakazee pilot either.

I'm a wus and a kamakazee pilot. That's why I insisted on wearing a helmet:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Pickup2.jpg

Guess where the fuel gauge is:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/Helmet.jpg

 

[Nolife]

Some one earlier mentioned getting a hand held and I second that. After two weeks online with FLX I got a used Garmin 195 off ebay and it saved my butt a couple of times. The 195 has the approaches in the database so you can use it for situational awareness especially shooting a night NDB to mins in CRG for example.

As far as the weather goes I scared myself two or three times and after that I didn't do anything stupid and management never gripped. Use common sense and you'll be fine. FLX is one of the best paying IFR experience building jobs out there.