What's going on at Flight Express?

[YaMama]

Hey everybody,

What's the latest at FLX for hiring, class dates, etc? And how much interview prep would be wise? I've been out of flying for about 18 months now, but could probably swing a few hours in an Arrow, and obviously some sim time/study time - depending how much patience they would have for an out-of-currency fool like myself.

Btw, I'm an 1800 hour CFI.

 

[RSixer]

Send'em your resume.

From what I understand they are hiring like hotcakes, submit your resume online (www.flightexpress.com). Gary Hilyer will most likely call within the hour, you can ask him those questions then.

 

[Aviator]

I would suggest studying everything on this site:

http://www.austincollins.com/fex.shtml

Gouge:

http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilotsample/flight_express.html

 

[Boris Badenov]

One wag on FI once said "If you can fog a mirror, you can pass FLX training". I'm not sure it's that easy, but I didn't think that the groundschool was terribly difficult. It's not studying for an FAA written, but it's not astronaught training either. Austin definitely knows his stuff, but he doesn't go out of his way to make it hard on you. That said, it seems like they're having about a 50% pass rate lately. This may be due to the cattle call approach to hiring. Basically, call Gary (Recruiter, defacto assistant DO), if you have the times and you don't go out of your way to show that you're a jerk on the phone, you'll be given a date to show up for training.

The 210 is a nice flying airplane, and I don't think they're doing the sim anymore, so I would concentrate on being ready for groundschool. Download all of Austin's "very easy guides" (see link above). I had the most trouble with 135 duty/flight time limitations and the 135 departure/alternate mins. YMMV.

As far as the job, it's good, if you know what you're getting in to. If it's legal, you're going. If you want to make "a lot" of money (~35k, before taxes), you're going to be at work a lot. You'll get used to sleeping in recliners. On the long runs, it's basically get up, go to work, come home, eat, sleep, repeat. Getting days off is extremely tough. If you plan on having a long run, you might want to to renew your medical, register your car, get your driver's license renewed, etc etc BEFORE you show up for training.

All of that aside, the company treats you well. There's no pushing to fly with broken airplanes, and if the weather really is too bad to go, you won't get pushed there either. If you show up for work and do a decent job, the DO will try to accomodate you as much as is possible. There's definitely nothing shady or underhanded about the operation. Just a lot of work, but a lot of fun, too.

 

[YaMama]

Thanks for the info. What do people usually wash out of training for?

 

[Boris Badenov]

In my class, one guy washed himself out because he basically seemed to be trying to get on as a part time second job. He was always leaving early to pick up his kids, didn't seem to have time to study the materials, etc. Nice guy, but just didn't seem to have the time for the training. Two other guys washed out because they couldn't speak english well enough. They got through the ground portion fine, but when they got in the airplane they apparently had trouble reading (or comprehending?) clearances. They were both also good pilots and nice guys.

I've heard stories from other classes about washouts. Mostly they seem to be the "insufficiently motivated" types, but I've heard of maybe one or two guys who just couldn't fly the airplane. They say, and I think correctly so, that if you can pass a commercial instrument checkride, you can pass the 135 checkride.

As far as not having flown for a while, I hadn't flown for about 2 years before my groundschool. My Part 135 PIC ride was also my BFR and IPC. In retrospect, I would probably go back and get a few hours in something (anything IFR) before going, because I think I really pushed my luck. That said, Austin or Matt (the chief pilot, who also gives checkrides) will do their legal best to give you slack if you don't give them an obvious and glaring reason to fail you.

They make it sound extremely intimidating when you first show up. This is to make sure you take it seriously. If you do take it seriously and actually study, you'll be fine.

Incidently, for posterity in case anyone is interested, I got the call for Baron upgrade within 3 days of my one year anniversary. Rumor has it this may be coming down slightly, to maybe around 8-10 months. Probably won't be back to 6 months anytime soon, though.

 

[drpilot]

Bases and moving on

Hello,
I have a few Question for someone currently flying at FE. I have also thought of apply their, I have the hours, but I have not been fying all that much in the last year. I am looking for a good place to work, and have read many good things about FE.
What bases seem to come open most offen? Why do they come open? Pilots that are moving on where do they go?
Appreciate the information
dr

 

[Boris Badenov]

It's pretty much a crapshoot with which bases come open. The only reliable thing I can tell you is it's generally harder to get Florida than other places. My *impression* is that some of the one or two plane bases come open most often. Places like Little Rock and Jackson. Presumably they come open because no one wants to be there. I can personally verify that the entire city of Jackson, MS is in the wrong part of town, for example.

In my class, one guy went to Cinci (which has since shrunk, and he got displaced to Orlando, I think). One guy got Jacksonville, FL, and I got Jackson, MS. I got Jackson because I scored lowest on the final written of all the guys who made it through training. You should consider this on those nights when you really want to watch HBO instead of studying for the written stuff. All that said, the movement in this company is such that you're likely to be able to get any base you want within 3-6 months, and probably more like 1-2.

People seeem to go to all sorts of places. CHQ, Commutair, Mesa, Part 91 citation job, part 135 lear job, part 135 421 job, aerial mapping in a Conquest, flying cargo in a caravan. Those are just the ones I remember personally. There are a lot of FLX alums on this system...do a search for threads and you'll likely see what a lot of people are doing 5 years down the road.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[mcjohn]

Good thread. Don't forget about Ram Air. They tend have a quicker upgrade to multi (hear say.) They start you in a Lance and supposedly have you in a 402 in 6 to 8 months. Also, they are a M-F operation. Weekends off. 2nd year pay is supposed to be good. Anyone have details on getting in a Mountain Air Cargo Caravan? I hear they are a good company.

 

[Boris Badenov]

FLX shuts down on the weekend too. I think Ram upgrades even faster than that. I've heard a month or two for the twin? On the other hand, their daily pay is $85. If you don't care too much about "having a life", you can make $140 at FLX. Ameriflight and Airnet pay more than Ram, but less than FLX, I think, and have an immediate twin position. Food for thought.

I will say this, though. I've heard a lot of horror stories about management at 135 operators, and I have nothing substantively negative to say about FLX's higher-ups. I've been treated well, and there have been no surprises.

 

[drpilot]

Thanks
dr

 

[capt. megadeth]

Gary's Back....? He left and went to AirTran for a while.. Where is Ernst?

 

[Boris Badenov]

Gary's been back for a couple of years now, I think. He's still recruiting away. Ernst is still D.O., and I suspect he hasn't changed much, either. We probably still fly exactly the same planes with exactly the same equipment. FLX is a bright star of constancy in an otherwise changing world.

Keep a seat warm for us at Brown, we'll see you in about a decade (we hope).

 

[labbats]

Ernst, Austin and the whole crew are a class act. Treated me very well and MX was good enough to make me feel safe crossing the everglades single engine every night. Barebones equipment (no gps, autopilot, DME) but the 210 is easy to fly. I guess some planes have gps or DME, it's been a while.

As far as being pushed to fly in weather, that is sort of the mentality. If you've never been blinded by lightning before you hang it up at FLX, then you've been on day runs. I'll never forget when they tried to tell me to split the two "level 5 or 6s" hovering over Tampa. Of course this is all in a single engine cessna with absolutely no WX equipment. I waited them out, and they can stick it where their unlicensed dispatchers sit as far as that is concerned. Stand your ground if you feel unsafe, but keep an open mind because like any frieght job there will be growing pains flying around inclement weather.

 

[Boris Badenov]

There was a serious shake up in the dispatch department a couple of years back (before my time). From what I understand they used to be a lot more uh "demanding". Like I say, I've never had a problem. One time they had me call Matt, and he said "you're the pic, I back you up all the way". Never heard about it again. Obviously it's a balancing act, you can't sit on the ground when there's a cloud in the sky, but I've never felt pressured to do anything really dangerous.

A few planes have DME. Fewer have GPS, Loran, or RNAV, all left over from when they bought them. When they break they get removed. I fly without a handheld, but if I had it to do over again, I'd probably spring for one.

 

[Bryan D]

I'm eyeballing Ram Air and Flight Express. I went to an interview a week ago with a 135 operator (not cargo), whom I shall not name, and I was asked if I felt comfortable flying in "heavy weather". I asked what "heavy weather" was defined as and he said thunderstorms or ice. I told him I have no problem flying in non-convective weather but, I would not fly in ice with a airplane that was not equipped for it and could not carry it. Which leads me up to my question; What is the worst weather Flight Express would expect someone to fly in? I'm not a wuss but I'm no Kamakazee pilot either.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Well, it's hard to put it in black and white terms. One of the more recent hires refused to fly in icing (in a known icing equipped aircraft). She got a visit from one of the management types who went flying with her, she started flying in ice, and that was the end of it (or so I'm told).

Obviously, if you were in a non icing approved aircraft, you will not be expected to fly in ice. In fact, you'd get yourself in big trouble if management found out. They don't want the FAA's attention any more than you do, and you can set your watch on getting ramped within a week or two of any kind of incident, however minor.

Not something to worry about, because it's extremely unlikely. All of the ice-equipped airplanes are kept up north (where the ice is), and there are plenty of them. I've never even seen a non-ice equipped airplane here (I'm in CPS). Most of them are TKS, which works so well it's about as close to "turn it on and forget it" as you can get. Some have boots, but I've never had to fly one of those in ice. Basically, the company makes it work so that you have a TKS plane if you're likely to be in ice.

Thunderstorms are a little bit more grey. I've refused to fly two or three times for CBs. One time was when I was relatively new, and in retrospect, I probably could have gone around it. I called dispatch, they called the chief pilot, he called me and after explaining the situation, he told me that I should depart when I felt comfortable. I did, and I never heard anything else about it. The other two times it didn't even go that far. They can see the radar just like you can, and you are absolutely NOT expected to penetrate serious storms.

In practice, different people have different comfort levels. Yes, there definitely are guys who believe in "don't DEVIATE, PENETRATE, or you'll be LATE", but not because the company pushes them to. There are some who will fly 100 miles out of their way to avoid level 2s and 3s, and they still work here. I'm probably somewhere in between the two. It's definitely something you pick up as you do it.

Will you scare yourself at some point? Probably, especially at first. Will you be in real danger? I don't think so. To my knowledge, we've never lost an aircraft to weather. In my experience, the weather that is seriously dangerous makes it extremely obvious to you that it's dangerous and practically begs you to make a different choice.

 

[YaMama]

Good stuff, Boris - keep it coming!

I am mildly surprised that strike finders wouldn't be cost effective for an operation like Flight Express, especially around these parts (southeast U.S.) Does ATC mind helping you around t-storms when necessary?

It appears that FLX is mostly a daylight hours operation? I'm definitely more comfortable taking on serious weather during the day ... plus I just enjoy daytime flying more.

I was reading some older threads about Flight Express - people saying the D.O. took a dislike to them and was making their lives miserable for no good reason ...?

 

[mcjohn]

Very informative. Thanks. A buddy of mine flew for Ram and he's told me some stories but I think he wanted to get there more himself personally. Not pushed by the company. I was in total awe of his arrival.....in the middle of a hurricane that had just been down graded to a tropical depression!

I'm not a wuss but I'm no Kamakazee pilot either.

I'm a wus and a kamakazee pilot. That's why I insisted on wearing a helmet:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Pickup2.jpg

Guess where the fuel gauge is:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/Helmet.jpg

 

[Nolife]

Some one earlier mentioned getting a hand held and I second that. After two weeks online with FLX I got a used Garmin 195 off ebay and it saved my butt a couple of times. The 195 has the approaches in the database so you can use it for situational awareness especially shooting a night NDB to mins in CRG for example.

As far as the weather goes I scared myself two or three times and after that I didn't do anything stupid and management never gripped. Use common sense and you'll be fine. FLX is one of the best paying IFR experience building jobs out there.

 

[mcjohn]

Then Ram is one the best paying multi-engine IFR experience building jobs out there. Upgrade said to be at 2 months right now.

 

[Big Dog]

small clarification...

The pay for new hires at Ram Air is now $90/day, with the potential of $3000 in bonuses the first year. Second year is $115/day.

In other news, Mr. Boris is right on talking about weather. It's been my experience that the Wx always looks worse on the radar on the ground than in the air with your eyeballs. As you gain experience, you'll develop stratagies in dealing with Wx. This could be above, around, under, through or sit and wait. It varies so widely I'm not even going to generalize. One thing I would encourage you to do after you've been through some bumps; as soon as you land get on the computer in front of some radar and look what you flew through. Try to look at the local radar sites (their data is almost always more true) as opposed to the larger, regional views. You'll be suprised to find that sometimes the yellows and oranges barely gave you a bump but you may have gotten pounded in areas with no echos. Also keep in mind that ATC radar shows only precip, not turbulence. ATC seems to equate precip with bumps but that's not always true. At times the smoothest air is in the rain. Experience is the best teacher, but that means exposing yourself to some weather. Be careful, and when in doubt, you are the PIC.

 

[mcjohn]

Deleted double post

 

[mcjohn]

Hey Big Dog, I was in the Concord area (Charlotte) the other day and I cruised by to see if I could find Ram's hanger. I found what must have been it behind a fence with Package Express signs on it. A bunch of folks were hanging around working on Lances and some bigger planes in the hanger. I was about to see if someone would let me in but everyone looked too busy. Are you in the Raleigh or Concord HQ?

 

[Boris Badenov]

Everything Big Dog says matches up with my (much lesser) experience. In short "weather is where you find it", and unless the bad stuff is right over the field, it usually pays to at least go up and have a look. This is particularly true during the summer, when 95% of the time you can stay VMC below the overcast and pick your way through the storms.

ATC is almost always helpful. Sometimes a little too helpful, since they're used to RJs wanting to stay 20 miles away from the nearest rain shower, and therefore want to send you home by way of Timbuktu. On the other hand, I once broke out of an overcast about a mile short of flying in to the middle of what had to be at least a level 5. One of those really concentrated summer cells about 5X5 miles, and nothing but showers on either side (it was one of those days the midwest got clobbered by tornados). Controller didn't say a word (to be fair, he was very busy). The moral of the story is be wary of embedded storms. They're pretty much the only weather that still gives me that wonderful buggy-eyed alert feeling (as opposed to the slap-yourself-to-stay-awake feeling you get every other day after month 11 on the same run).

We have a couple of airplanes with strikefinders. As far as I can tell they're mostly just good for scaring the everloving turds out of yourself. Maybe ours are a bit "oversensitive", or I don't know how to use the thing, but I eventually just turned it off, since it spent most of the time doing a good imitation of a christmas tree.

FLX runs are about 80% daytime, I think (I vaguely remember that figure from training...if that's wrong, it'll be more than 80%, not less). It seems like they just operate the company as though you were based at your destination rather than your actual base, if that makes sense, which keeps people flying during the days and also makes lots of very long duty days (good for the $$).

As to the DO playing favorites or going out of his way to make anyone's life unpleasant, I haven't seen it. Ernst is what I'd describe as "tough but fair". He'll definitely make clear to you exactly how much your screwup has cost the company in excruciating detail if you ever have to do the rug dance (for example, if you suddenly need a day off you could have asked for three weeks ago, but didn't, and now he has to charter the run...not that I'd know.) But he doesn't hold a grudge and understands how hard you're working. If you give him fair warning he'll to his best to help you out. It probably helps if you manage to show up for work on a regular basis and don't start unneccesary drama at FBOs and soforth. My lord I'm longwinded. In short, it's not real hard to get along here and stay under the radar.

Finally, FLX also offers a $1000 ($78something after taxes, I think) bonus. If you stay 6 months you keep it, otherwise, you can just keep the check and send it back to them when you leave. This is in lieu of a training contract, which FLX does not have. If you get Nashville or St. Louis, you can live in the hangar for free (you get what you pay for...especially, I hear, in Nashville. Dormitory style living.) One of the Florida bases also has hangar beds, I think, although I'm not sure which.

Not to get in to a bidding war for your future attentions...my only interest is that of a relatively happy employee. Ram and the other operators definitely have things to offer that FLX doesn't. To each their own.

Good thing I have all of this time on my hands, I'm finally writing that dissertation on the internet.

 

[Dustin H]

My experience with FLX 2001-2002


Pros:
Put me in a twin with only 15 hours of multi experience


Great for getting IFR experience


Outstanding training program – Austin really knows his stuff


Chief pilot is very easy to get along with (if Matt is still there)


Cons:
The equipment is fairly ragged out / very old and beat up


Maintenance is sub-par to every other operator I've worked for. I've heard things have gotten better in that department since I was flying there. I don't know that for sure. Back in the day, I had to pump the gear down or go in nordo on several occasions. The worst was the heaters going out on the Barron's in the winter. I'd have to bring a thick blanket on my runs so I wouldn't freeze.


The TKS systems doesn't really work that well. Ice would accumulate in patches and TKS fluid dose not do much for preventing ice on the windscreen. Plus the TKS fluid would run out faster than the book would suggest.


The comment about the DO making life hard on people who didn't deserve it. I can only speak for myself. After ground school I had a class score which allowed me to choose the open base of my liking. After choosing Opa Locka I was asked to reconsider and go to Kansas City as a favor by the DO. Well after flying under the radar for over a year with the company with no tardies or absentees I asked to redeem some of my earned vacation time and was told by the DO “why should I do any favors for you?” That kinda stuck out in my mind for a while.


Over all it's a good company for building time, but that's it.

 

[Boris Badenov]

The planes are definitely old and beat up.

Maintenance at CPS is great. Planes are old, stuff breaks, stuff gets fixed right the first time. Can't speak to the other maintenance bases.

I've never had any trouble with TKS at all. I also don't have anything to which to compare it. I've heard it's not as good on the Barons as the 210s. Haven't had the pleasure of trying it on the baron yet. You definitely have to make sure it's primed before you fly. After sitting and not being used for a while, the panels will dry up and not be able to bleed out the fluid. It also needs to be turned on before you hit the ice. My runs have never had any legs longer than about 1:20, so running out of fluid has never been an issue. I definitely carry extra jugs of fluid, though. Oh and yeah the windscreen is kind of a weakspot. The problem I've had is it sprays it on, which melts/prevents the ice, but then the fluid sticks and makes it pretty hard to see, also sometimes fogs up.

I haven't had a bad experience with the DO yet, but maybe I've just gotten lucky. He definitely plays hardball with "requests" and soforth, but while I've gotten barked at, I've yet to feel a bite. This may have something to do with the relative scarcity of pilots now versus when you were here, though.

PS. Matt is still here and he's still easy to get along with.

And yeah, while I have good things to say, I'm definitely not planning to make a career here. They don't expect you to, although inexplicably, some people wind up doing so.

 

[mcjohn]

I love this thread. I can feel ya! One of my recent past bosses and I were great friends but when it came to work he was a frequent "barker" and I'd usually bark back but he knew I needed him and he knew he needed me. When knowing you "really have to go" but don't want to coincide there's bound to be a little drama. I've had it so bad that I've been called LAZY 'cause I didn't want to go. Well, call it lazy or whatever, but when you've been in the air 7 plus hours already with only a 15 minute refueling it's nice to stick the ol feet on the ground.

 

[Art Vandalay]

FLX Alumni 2004-2005.

I had a great time while I was there. Ernst, Austin, Matt, Gary, and the whole crew were all easy to work for. While it was difficult to get a day off, I cannot think of any negatives besides that. Yea, it would be better to start in a twin, but that will come with time. I had a great run out of LUK where I was paid to sleep and work out during the day while on a layover.

I love my job now working 135 charter, but miss the M-F schedule with all bank holidays off.


Take Care,

Art V.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Man, Art spent all of his time working out and sleeping. I spend mine typing on the internet.

How are things in the flight levels?