Whats all this BS about the BS degree?

[bart]

Please don't waste your time

The market is competitive enough. Please dont get your degree, that way my resume moves one slot closer to the top of the stack.

 

[rumpletumbler]

But I want to get my degree! How about a degree in agriculture. I can explain that I might know better which field to land in. etc.

RT

 

[Dep676]

I think a degree is a good idea 2 or 4-year. Why does it have to be a deciding matter in aviation though? I would think hours and ratings should weigh in more than rather the person as a degree or not. Again the degree as no bearing on how well the person can fly. There have been a lot of times when the more qualified person as far as flight time is passed up. Just because the lack of education. So I suppose that they person with a 4-year degree and less time and ratings is a better pilot. I don't understand the thinking behind this. Again I am not saying not to get a degree. Just that everybody should have fair chance based on there flight experience not there college degree. Isn't that what we all are trying to do, FLY? Not who had a better GPA or who drank more beer with their frat brothers. And yes my GPA was 3.80 before someone has any comments about that. I will save you the energy from typing your snide remarks.

 

[MetroSheriff]

But I want to get my degree! How about a degree in agriculture. I can explain that I might know better which field to land in. etc.

RT

Now that one I like!!!!

 

[rumpletumbler]

AHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAA! Experience not college! So you agree with me

RT

 

[checkessential]

For the uninitiated, when an airline hires someone, they are not looking for the next Red Baron. They hire someone who shows a record of education and self improvement. If the person has a history of progressive education and achievement, that person will most likely do well in that airline's training program. It's that simple. United couldn't care less if you're the hottest stick around or not, they plan on teaching you how to do it, their way. Seems dumb, but it isn't. And for those who feel that they are being unfairly pushed out of the way for not having a degree, go get one. Then see how you feel about it....

 

[CXAV8]

Head in sand.

Try to get quality experience without a degree. Then try and pay your mortage on your C-310 wages. Without a degree your career options will be very limited. It's very tough to get to the top. Your trying with one hand behind your back.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I never said I didn't want one. The question was do I have to have one. My choice if I get one would be something I could do at home preferably. Are there degree programs out there that you can do via online classroom or other methods at home etc. that are not dissed so to speak by the aviation community? I mean you have books, subject matter, tests. Why do I need to drive 60 miles each way and smell other peoples farts for 3 hours 3 times a week when I can do it at home? Or is that part of it? RT, by my calculations you've smelled approximately 72,456 farts over the last 3 years. You've made it! Welcome to the club.

RT

 

[Dep676]

Let's see

I have a good friend that is making more than most captains at the regional level and most of the new guys at the majors. He has no degree at all and he is making well in to 60's or 70's flying a DA 2000. And he has only been there a little over a year. There are plenty of guys at the same company making over 6 figures. And I also fly with a guy that makes in the 80's plus he gets a company car every few years. He also gets a 20% bonus every year that's 16,000 smackers for all you "educated people". They both of have way better quality of life than any airline educated person. So I guess you better run out an get your 4-year degree so can fly a RJ for 20,000 a year. That's after you spend all the well spent money on your degree. So you can live in a box and eat government cheese. Just so you can dream of getting to the majors some day and get furloughed.

 

[checkessential]

No need to get moody. At the right regional, you can have a pretty stable career, along with nice travel benefits. Other jobs have their advantages also. As to whether or not you are subject to furlough, that is luck of the draw. An industry as dynamic as this one, has no sure bets. Just good guesses. But should you get furloughed, having a degree can secure a good living in another line of work. Including agriculture. No joke.

 

[enigma]

RT

Yes, you can have a good flying career without a degree. But not in the airlines.

No, getting a degree will not be a waste of time. I earned an associates at 24 and finally finished the four year degree in ERAU's independant learning program when I was 38. The only reason I decided to finish was to be able to fill in the box on an application. I was SO wrong. After taking the upper level courses, I realized just how much I didn't know. Yea, I know, I still can't compose a decent sentence. It's been 22 years since I took a grammer course

There are numerous independent learning programs available today. The aforementioned ERAU program, and ones at: Thomas Edison State College, Excelsior U, U of Phoenix, etc. These are all properly accredited and accepted within the aviation industry.

Just search this forum for degree threads. You'll find more than you need.

Get a degree, you'll be glad you did.

regards
8N

 

[AV1ATRX]

Gee, I can't believe how much I've posted in the past two days, but I just can't let this one pass by without saying something.

First of all, whoever asked about the Chieftan, yes you can lean it by the glow, but it's much easier to do it by the EGT.

Anyway, it always bothers me when people judge other people by the education or lack of education they have. Which leads to me question - will I never get a major airline job because all I have is a two year degree? Shouldn't a person's situation count for anything? I bet there aren't a whole lot of people who have pulled off what I had to do - single mom, paid my way throught my two year degree and my flight training while raising my daughter by myself and working full time. I don't say that to elicit pity or sympathy from anyone, especially a potential employer, but I feel it goes to show that while I may not have had the money to afford a 4 year degree, I certianly have put forth a great amount of effort and sacrifice to get to this point in my career.

I understand how the process works to weed out the less desirable people, and I agree that if at all possible you should get a 4 year degree. But that's not possible for me. Maybe in the future, but not for now. Will I ever get a chance to explain something like that if all the HR people do is say "No, she doesn't have a BS" and trash my resume?

There has been some great info on this thread, but also some unneccesary flaming. I'm asking for an honest answer, not some smart-aleck comments. Thanks in advance.

Rachel

 

[rumpletumbler]

That is potentially good news. I'm not interested in being a bus driver. How about Fractionals? I probably will seek (eventually) a good Corporate or Fractional job. Do the Corporate folks or Fractional's use the degree as a discriminator?

RT

 

[temcgrew]

I haven't read the entire replies to the thread starter, so you could say that I am not educated becouse I didn't research the subject before responding. but rumpletumbler is right and wrong.
there are alot of stupid people with masters degrees. It is what you put into your education which determines what you gain on the intelectual level. so, mr. tumbler, or can i call you rump? If you are more educated without attending any formal education classes than the frat boys who are just in it for the free beer, then you would be even MORE intelligent with a college degree. becouse you would stretch the learning part of it instead of trying to pass a class that you know nothing about. I think the airlines want college degrees becouse it shows that not only are we in love with airplanes but that we are able to use our intelects in other ways. If you want to get a degree so you can "check a box" on an airline application, then you gained nothing out of the education.

by the way my wife just pointed out to me that I have spelled
"because" wrong thru this reply, and I have to many run on sentances.....must be becouse I don't have a college degree!!!

 

[dmspilot00]

Re: Let's see

They both of have way better quality of life than any airline educated person. So I guess you better run out an get your 4-year degree so can fly a RJ for 20,000 a year. That's after you spend all the well spent money on your degree.

All the evidence out there says you can't buy happiness. You will always want more money, more things, and more and more and more. Surveys done on people who win the lottery and become millionaires show that a mere one year after winning, those people are NO HAPPIER than they were before they won! And, some say that they wish they hadn't won in the first place! It's not about money. Money does not make you happy. The uneducated believe that it does, but the educated realize that life is about much more than money. College and education teach you things you can't learn otherwise. Checkessential was right on--it is about SELF-IMPROVEMENT.

You treat sentence errors like they are no big deal. I point them out not because I am a perfectionist, but because you claim you are more educated than those that actually have an education. I'd like to see you get a job with a resume and cover letter that have runon sentences, phrases that don't make sense, and inconsistencies and contradictions. It's one thing to have typos, but another to write something that is so incoherent that no one can understand what you're trying to say. You won't get very far in life at all if no one can understand you.

Flying is mostly mental--studies say 80 percent. Your education and attitude DO affect your flying whether you realize it or not. More knowledge leads to better decisions, etc.

Originally posted by enigma
No, getting a degree will not be a waste of time. I earned an associates at 24 and finally finished the four year degree in ERAU's independant learning program when I was 38. The only reason I decided to finish was to be able to fill in the box on an application. I was SO wrong. After taking the upper level courses, I realized just how much I didn't know.

You are right, but these UNEDUCATED individuals don't seem to understand. It is obvious for this reason alone that there is a huge difference between someone who went to college (legitimately) and someone who did not.

Originally posted by AV1ATRX
Anyway, it always bothers me when people judge other people by the education or lack of education they have. Which leads to me question - will I never get a major airline job because all I have is a two year degree?

You are probably talking about what I said. No, I did not judge anyone at all on the basis of their education or lack thereof. I judge them by their attitude and arrogance. The person(s) in question have the attitude that they do not need an education to be educated, that education is worthless, that you can become self-educated without ever attending a single class, that they are just as intelligent, etc. This is a very piss-poor attitude to have, and it is downright OFFENSIVE to us who are actually trying to earn a good, LEGITIMATE education--not because we have to as some employment requirement, but because we want to be educated, society-contributing citizens.

I can't answer your question about getting a job, Rachel, however, I think you have already made a big difference in your life by deciding, as an adult, to return to school.

Originally posted by UEJ500
there are alot of stupid people with masters degrees. It is what you put into your education which determines what you gain on the intelectual level. so, mr. tumbler, or can i call you rump? If you are more educated without attending any formal education classes than the frat boys who are just in it for the free beer, then you would be even MORE intelligent with a college degree. becouse you would stretch the learning part of it instead of trying to pass a class that you know nothing about. I think the airlines want college degrees becouse it shows that not only are we in love with airplanes but that we are able to use our intelects in other ways. If you want to get a degree so you can "check a box" on an airline application, then you gained nothing out of the education.

UEJ500, you have said it better than I could have hoped to say it myself. You certainly have the right attitude. And you're right--no matter how smart you are, you will be smarter if you seek more education! Imagine that! I earned an A.S., now I am working on my B.S., and I plan to either get second Bachelors or a Masters sometime in the future. Maybe after that, I'll get a Doctorate? Probably not, but I can dream. Also, like I and others have said before--you people who "coasted" through school just so they could "check the box" are no better than the people who didn't go to college at all.

There is a vastness of information out there and I want to become a part of it. I want to be a better person. I don't want to be "just good enough" or "better than Joe Schmoe," I want to be the best that *I* am capable of!! And THAT is what a better life is about. It is certainly not taking the easiest road to the easiest life in order to make the most easy money. Without challenges and triumphs, what is the point of life?

 

[FlyinBrian]

I have a degree, and before I had a degree I probably had more common sense and general intelligence than most people who had degrees. But guess what? I am much better educated now than I was before I had a degree. I gained a ton of experience in formal communication. I demonstrated that I can succeed in an environment where my performance is constantly being graded and evaluated. I demonstrated that I am willing to put in the extra time and effort to put myself in a position where I am marketable. I am pretty certain that you too can succeed in a rigorous academic environment. But there's a difference between you and I.... I've proven it.

By the way...

There are many people who went to college who are more educated than I am

An educated man wouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. They taught me that in college.

 

[TIMP]

Metrosherif,

I have walked in the enlisted mans shoes for three years in the the 101st Airborne Division (infantry) before I got smart and went to officer candidate school. I'm definitely not saying many enlisted soldiers aren't intelligent. And I'm not saying all officers are superior in intellect. Though, if you didn't see a significant difference between the two groups when you were in you either have poor observation skills, or your jealously/animosity towards officers has blinded you to how difficult it truly is to fill their shoes. Obviously, you didn't walk in their shoes! An ironic observation I made in the military is that some of the worst officers were prior enlisted soldiers. Explain that one! Finally, I'm not directly equating intelligence with no education, either. Education gives a person a better foundation to build on.

Rumpletumbler,

Chuck Yeagar didn't have a college degree until he came up for promotion to General, then he was forced to either get one, or get passed over for promotion. He chose the degree. Bill Gates and several other highly successful people never had degrees either, but these people were/are extraordinary and rare. If you believe yourself to be of such ability then you probably don't need one either. But for your own sake, please don't argue that a college eduaction is worthless, especially during an interview. It just doesn't hold water, and will only do you harm.

Best of luck to you!

 

[BeerNear]

Ya'll might be missing the real argument

Howdy Ya'll,

I'm only 34 and I know I only have a limited view of the world right now. In addition, as you can see from my profile, I only have around 3000 hours of flying. Please bear with me. I'm not a good communicator, but I'm trying to get better.

In my opinion, this post, almost inadvertently, highlights what I think is the most important attribute in your working career(airline pilot) and life at home, striving to increase your emotional intelligence.

I've flown with both officers and enlisted. Generally, officers have the degrees and enlisted do not, but I've worked with enlisted troops who have MBAs from Stanford. No kidding. I've also flown with pilots, navs, loadmasters, and engineers that have had hours that range from 200 to 8000. All these degrees and flying hours do not mean a thing if the person is a emotional trainwreck.

I may be wrong about this and this is a total guess, but I think most of the major airlines have a common belief on college degrees and flying hours. A college degree shows a commitment to better oneself. The flying hours minimum might help indicate that a person may know what he or she is doing by not having problems in the course of obtaining, let's say, 2500 hours. I believe these are small indicators of who a person really is.

Without writing a thesis paper here, I believe the main consideration airlines should stress when hiring people is looking for the person who knows how to deal with people and keep their emotions in check. The ability to do this will get you much farther in life than degrees and flying hours. Anywhooo, I am rambling on and better let ya go.


If anyone is interested, I wrote a paper while getting my masters at ERAU. It may be BS, but I tried to find out why things are the way they are in the airline hiring business. It is titled: A STUDY TO DETERMINE HOW SOUTHWEST AIRLINES HIRES A MORE EMOTIONALLY INTELLIGENT PILOT THAN THE BIG THREE AIRLINES. Just PM me and I'll email you a copy. Ya'll at the Big 3, please don't be offended. It's just a college paper.

Take care and fly safe,

BN

BTW, getting my masters was a blast. I met a lot of great people and learned a little too.

 

[Chunk]

say again?

I have walked in the enlisted mans shoes for three years in the the 101st Airborne Division (infantry) before I got smart and went to officer candidate school. .......... An ironic observation I made in the military is that some of the worst officers were prior enlisted soldiers. Explain that one!

First...the fact that you joined the ARMY demonstrates to all your intellect!

Secondly, worst officers were prior E's? I can think of two individuals that fit that description, however the best officers I worked with were mustangs. How does that fit in your equation?

Chunk <--former enlisted swine

 

[avbug]

"I can tell you flat out that there is a significant difference between the overall intelligence of "Officers (all have college degrees) compared to "enlisted soldiers (who mostly do not have degrees). It's night and day, my friend. And you can't fight it. "

That's been adressed a few times now, but I'd add that the Chief Pilot for one of my employers was a Chief Master Sgt. when he retired, before beginning a very successful career in aviation. He got a degree on his own, though it had nothing to do with his flying, or his success. He's no slouch, certainly lacks no intelligence, and would probablyby the first to knock you on your butt for making the statement that enlisted are less intelligent (see quote above) than officers.

Tonight I'm flying a trip with an individual who was prior SF enlisted, and who has had a long career in aviation without the benifit of a degree (he later got one, but had a career long before that).

To each his own. There is no denying the benifit of having the degree on the resume. The benifit of what may have been gained by obtaining the degree itself, in terms of personal worth, is somewhat nebulous. The personal enrichment is largely a result of what you put into it, education generally not being absorbed by osmosis.

Education dos not need to be formal. The school of hard knocks still continues to be man's greatest educator, and often it's finest polisher. Education does not necessarily mean "book learning." Educated does not mean institutionalized, or formally schooled. Certainly education does not imply intelligence, or the use of intelligence.

The degree itself has other points of worth that have previously been covered here, and certainly have been adressed far better than I could hope to do. Obtaining the degree isn't a waste of time, unless you make it so. Consider too that when you leave this life, one of the only things you will take with you is your education, whatever that may be.

Then again, I'm still working on my degree. I'm still an ignorant, unintelligent, hick. Perhaps one day I'll measure up to ghe big shots who tower so high above us all. One day. Perhaps.