what were payrates from last AAI TA?

[CesnaCaptn]

... some door close soft pay.

What is "door close soft pay?"

 

[Colonel Savage]

AAI pilots used to start getting paid for a leg as soon as the main cabin door closed before pushback, now they don't get paid until wheels start rolling for pushback.

 

[maxblast72]

Why is goodwill important to them, if they were the ones destroying it to begin with? That doesn't make any sense!

Management is just trying to convince us they can't afford to pay us more. It is just business. Management knows sooner or later Airtran pilots costs are going up and they are just dragging their feet to save money for as long as possible.

Welcome to the airlines. The only airlines with a different mentality would probably be Jetblue and Southwest.

 

[maxblast72]

AAI pilots used to start getting paid for a leg as soon as the main cabin door closed before pushback, now they don't get paid until wheels start rolling for pushback.

Actually, we still get paid from door close but TA2 (if ratified) would have taken that away. I believe the union priced that as a 3% concession.

 

[Lear70]

Actually, we still get paid from door close but TA2 (if ratified) would have taken that away. I believe the union priced that as a 3% concession.

That's what they claimed. Info I have says 4%.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

I understand that you get paid when the L1 door is closed. Is that the only door that needs to be closed? What about a pit door or an aft door? This might seem like a stupid question, but are you considered blocked out (flight time started) when you start getting paid?

At Alaska, we used to release the break and start getting paid when all upper doors were closed. Now, we have to wait until we have been cleared for push. We could be waiting, buttoned up, for a while waiting for numbers, traffic in the alley, pax in the biffy, etc., without getting paid. Our COO has been quoted, although not officially on the record, that he "understands" that we expect to be paid when the MCD is closed. He says that there is no system in place to pay us when the door closes, without considering us blocked out for FAA flight time regs.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

I was told that most ACARS units can be programed to send different out times at once, such as wheel motion to both maintenance for aircraft block time and the station to determine better eta's, or the main cabin door closing times to crew tracking for payroll and duty time caculation.

Either way, programming ACARS to the company'e liking is becoming an industry wide practice. JB, UAL, LCC and NK have all gone from door closure to wheel motion and have really riled up the troops.

 

[ERfly]

I was told that most ACARS units can be programed to send different out times at once, such as wheel motion to both maintenance for aircraft block time and the station to determine better eta's, or the main cabin door closing times to crew tracking for payroll and duty time caculation.

Either way, programming ACARS to the company'e liking is becoming an industry wide practice. JB, UAL, LCC and NK have all gone from door closure to wheel motion and have really riled up the troops.

We do that with our IN times on our ACARS at XJT. It captures 2 times.

First door open (usually the bag door) = DOT IN TIME for FAA, DOT, etc

Main Cabin Door open = Pay time

 

[j41driver]

This might seem like a stupid question, but are you considered blocked out (flight time started) when you start getting paid?

No. The ACARS tracks DOOR, OUT, OFF, ON and IN times. Flight time is OUT - IN. Pay time is DOOR - IN.

 

[Lear70]

No. The ACARS tracks DOOR, OUT, OFF, ON and IN times. Flight time is OUT - IN. Pay time is DOOR - IN.

To explain it better to someone who hasn't been through the multiple memos of "don't roll the wheels for an on-time" then have the ground crews trying to do exactly that...

ACARS tracks OUT time by when the wheels move a certain speed for a certain amount of time. Therefore, when the push crew starts pushing you back, the ACARS sends the OUT signal, which is what all Flight Times for FAR purposes are gauged by.

In the past, the ground crews would ask you to "roll for an on-time", even if you didn't have a push clearance, which would mean they would push you backwards 20-30 feet to get the clock moving, then bring you back in slightly so ground control doesn't get torqued that you just blocked the roadway or the alley.

There have been several memos instructing the pilots NOT to do that, so you can sometimes sit with the door closed, getting paid, for 2, 5, even 10 minutes or more if it's really congested in the alley.

The last T.A. tried to take most of that soft time away by linking pay to the earlier of either wheels moving (OUT), or DOOR + 10 minutes. Because we flew primarily in and out of ATL when that T.A. was being pushed, and not so much point-to-point or MKE/BWI/MCO flying, it was a not-inconsequential concession / pay cut that offset (or in some cases came close to canceling out) the hourly pay increases of 3%-6% on average for most seats/longevity.

Hope that makes more sense to you guys... If I got a detail wrong, someone speak up, it's been over 2 1/2 years, and no one recalls everything right all the time...

 

[HalinTexas]

Don't start the engines until pushback is complete and disconnected. Two engine taxis. No short cuts. No intersections. Slow, slow. slow. Don't "carry" any airplanes. Carry captain's fuel, if you have it. Use that APU. Don't run checklists or get clearances until the door is closed.

 

[maxblast72]

Don't start the engines until pushback is complete and disconnected. Two engine taxis. No short cuts. No intersections. Slow, slow. slow. Don't "carry" any airplanes. Carry captain's fuel, if you have it. Use that APU. Don't run checklists or get clearances until the door is closed.

Why stop with just those illegal job actions? Why not have a sickout, pick up no opentime, and other things so we can have the mediator put our negotiations on ice for a year when we are getting down to the final endgame. Picketing, strike votes, press releases, and strikes are legal per the RLA and can put serious pressure on companies. It is the system of rules we live under. If you don't like the rules, write your congressman to change the RLA to reflect today's airline industry.

 

[wood pecker]

Has anyone heard if AAI is seeking 150% pay at a certain trigger point? I think it is 78 hours at Jet Blue.

 

[gearup5]

Most FO's are expecting somewhere in the 25-30 dollar range depending on year.

FUPM
Suck it Bob!

 

[Max Powers]

Just got lectured by an old Eastern Boy about how we won't win in a strike so don't even bother. He of course likened the situation to The Eastern debacle. I put him in his place very fast. Lets just say he didn't bring it up the rest of the trip.