what were payrates from last AAI TA?

[CesnaCaptn]

I understand that you get paid when the L1 door is closed. Is that the only door that needs to be closed? What about a pit door or an aft door? This might seem like a stupid question, but are you considered blocked out (flight time started) when you start getting paid?

At Alaska, we used to release the break and start getting paid when all upper doors were closed. Now, we have to wait until we have been cleared for push. We could be waiting, buttoned up, for a while waiting for numbers, traffic in the alley, pax in the biffy, etc., without getting paid. Our COO has been quoted, although not officially on the record, that he "understands" that we expect to be paid when the MCD is closed. He says that there is no system in place to pay us when the door closes, without considering us blocked out for FAA flight time regs.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

I was told that most ACARS units can be programed to send different out times at once, such as wheel motion to both maintenance for aircraft block time and the station to determine better eta's, or the main cabin door closing times to crew tracking for payroll and duty time caculation.

Either way, programming ACARS to the company'e liking is becoming an industry wide practice. JB, UAL, LCC and NK have all gone from door closure to wheel motion and have really riled up the troops.

 

[ERfly]

I was told that most ACARS units can be programed to send different out times at once, such as wheel motion to both maintenance for aircraft block time and the station to determine better eta's, or the main cabin door closing times to crew tracking for payroll and duty time caculation.

Either way, programming ACARS to the company'e liking is becoming an industry wide practice. JB, UAL, LCC and NK have all gone from door closure to wheel motion and have really riled up the troops.

We do that with our IN times on our ACARS at XJT. It captures 2 times.

First door open (usually the bag door) = DOT IN TIME for FAA, DOT, etc

Main Cabin Door open = Pay time

 

[j41driver]

This might seem like a stupid question, but are you considered blocked out (flight time started) when you start getting paid?

No. The ACARS tracks DOOR, OUT, OFF, ON and IN times. Flight time is OUT - IN. Pay time is DOOR - IN.

 

[Lear70]

No. The ACARS tracks DOOR, OUT, OFF, ON and IN times. Flight time is OUT - IN. Pay time is DOOR - IN.

To explain it better to someone who hasn't been through the multiple memos of "don't roll the wheels for an on-time" then have the ground crews trying to do exactly that...

ACARS tracks OUT time by when the wheels move a certain speed for a certain amount of time. Therefore, when the push crew starts pushing you back, the ACARS sends the OUT signal, which is what all Flight Times for FAR purposes are gauged by.

In the past, the ground crews would ask you to "roll for an on-time", even if you didn't have a push clearance, which would mean they would push you backwards 20-30 feet to get the clock moving, then bring you back in slightly so ground control doesn't get torqued that you just blocked the roadway or the alley.

There have been several memos instructing the pilots NOT to do that, so you can sometimes sit with the door closed, getting paid, for 2, 5, even 10 minutes or more if it's really congested in the alley.

The last T.A. tried to take most of that soft time away by linking pay to the earlier of either wheels moving (OUT), or DOOR + 10 minutes. Because we flew primarily in and out of ATL when that T.A. was being pushed, and not so much point-to-point or MKE/BWI/MCO flying, it was a not-inconsequential concession / pay cut that offset (or in some cases came close to canceling out) the hourly pay increases of 3%-6% on average for most seats/longevity.

Hope that makes more sense to you guys... If I got a detail wrong, someone speak up, it's been over 2 1/2 years, and no one recalls everything right all the time...

 

[HalinTexas]

Don't start the engines until pushback is complete and disconnected. Two engine taxis. No short cuts. No intersections. Slow, slow. slow. Don't "carry" any airplanes. Carry captain's fuel, if you have it. Use that APU. Don't run checklists or get clearances until the door is closed.

 

[maxblast72]

Don't start the engines until pushback is complete and disconnected. Two engine taxis. No short cuts. No intersections. Slow, slow. slow. Don't "carry" any airplanes. Carry captain's fuel, if you have it. Use that APU. Don't run checklists or get clearances until the door is closed.

Why stop with just those illegal job actions? Why not have a sickout, pick up no opentime, and other things so we can have the mediator put our negotiations on ice for a year when we are getting down to the final endgame. Picketing, strike votes, press releases, and strikes are legal per the RLA and can put serious pressure on companies. It is the system of rules we live under. If you don't like the rules, write your congressman to change the RLA to reflect today's airline industry.

 

[wood pecker]

Has anyone heard if AAI is seeking 150% pay at a certain trigger point? I think it is 78 hours at Jet Blue.

 

[gearup5]

Most FO's are expecting somewhere in the 25-30 dollar range depending on year.

FUPM
Suck it Bob!

 

[Max Powers]

Just got lectured by an old Eastern Boy about how we won't win in a strike so don't even bother. He of course likened the situation to The Eastern debacle. I put him in his place very fast. Lets just say he didn't bring it up the rest of the trip.

 

[Colonel Savage]

"I put him in his place very fast..."

Yeah, based on what I've read from you on these boards, I can imagine the endless stream of non-sequiturs that ensued from your side of the cockpit during that monologue.

BTW, I warned you about ALPA getting too cozy with management (regarding SCOPE) during contract talks, and now one of your pilots says on another thread that he believes that Linden might be in Kolsk's back pocket.

And for that you said I was "talking out of my arse"! HA!

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

"I put him in his place very fast..."

Yeah, based on what I've read from you on these boards, I can imagine the endless stream of non-sequiturs that ensued from your side of the cockpit during that monologue.

BTW, I warned you about ALPA getting too cozy with management (regarding SCOPE) during contract talks, and now one of your pilots says on another thread that he believes that Linden might be in Kolsk's back pocket.

And for that you said I was "talking out of my arse"! HA!

Yea I read that too. But he also said we dont get updates, and we get plenty of them.. Just another one of our pilots that doesnt pay attention, that has his mouth wide open.

 

[Colonel Savage]

I just hope the AAI pilots as a group realize that ALPA's track record on SCOPE is abysmal, and that is a matter of fact. My opinion is that if you want to keep your tight scope language, it will probably require some real effort on the rank and file's part to keep your negotiating team focused on that. ALPA National may try to influence them to loosen it to acheive easier contract gains elsewhere (pay rates, scheduling, retirement, etc) to give you guys "the contract you want".

 

[T3700]

Keep what tight scope language?

 

[Colonel Savage]

It's tight relative to the rest of the industry, that's why ALPA would be willing to loosen it to "bring you in line" with everyone else.

 

[maxblast72]

It's tight relative to the rest of the industry, that's why ALPA would be willing to loosen it to "bring you in line" with everyone else.

But you have to remember that over 60% of Airtran's fleet is made up mainline RJs (B717s with 117 seats). Allowing anything over 70 seats would then become very competitive for 717 replacement. I am not worried about 50 seaters. 50 seaters do not have the CASM to haul $69 leisure to Florida and make money. 90 seaters and possibly 70 seaters are a different story. I would be very surprised if too many guys at Airtran are up for loosening scope especially after Republic 100 seaters replaced Midwest 99 seaters last year. ALPA would probably have to come up with Southwest pay rates to find enough guys blinded by money to ignore scope.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

scope is one of the main reason that TA 1 thru 25 failed. Amoung other issues.

 

[Colonel Savage]

What was the unacceptable scope language in the TA?

 

[wood pecker]

While we are discussing previous failed scope, has anyone heard anything about our future scope?

All I have heard is better fo rates and RES will always suck.

I would love to see an added section that will penalize those who will cross the strike line since previous offenders seem to know that nothing will happen to them based on previous events. (I could be wrong but most airlines allowed them back on property in the past.)

How? Each pilot gets a letter in advance that asks if they will cross the line. Check yes or no then mail back. If you answer No, then cross = you get hit with a large fine that goes to our PCF or strike fund.

If you answer yes and cross then there will be no fine and everyone will know what to expect before the strike vote. Wait snow in in ATL. I need to go check my CTweb to update my schedule to help out scheduling.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

What about new hires during a strike? What will happen to them?