What to log?

[blzr]

Very enlightening! Log it all if you want, or log some of it if you think it may one day bite you in the arse. It won't unless you log PIC time in an aircraft you are not qualified to fly.

 

[TWA Dude]

Bottom line, it's your logbook and you can be liberal (logging every minute you think you can) or conservative (logging what makes best sense to you without risking exaggeration). I think it's smart and useful to log conservatively. I only log instrument time, approaches, and landings when I'm the PF. I've never heard a word about how I log from interviewers and that's what matters most. Enjoy.

 

[ilinipilot]

ANother time Question

How do you integrate out and off times into tenths. If I the flight is 57 minutes how much do you put in your logbook, 1.0 or .9.

And the second part is have you ever been called under the carpet for rounding up.

As an FO i used to use the conversion given on our pay sheets, but I was wondering if that was standard practice. thanks

D

 

[blzr]

I knew a guy that only logged FLIGHT time because he said that the captain was taxiing so it would be illegal for me to log it. What a tool.

In corporate I add a two tenths for taxi to my flight time. that works best and is most accurate.

In 121 go by your out and in time. If you sit on the ramp for 20 minutes with the engine running, log it.

There was an old flight instructor at the airport I used to fly out of that said " If you see it, LOG IT, if you FLY it DOUBLE it"
I wouldn't recommend it, but it is a funny line.

Good rule of thumb, Don't let you flight time EXCEED your experience level! It will come back on you later!

 

[DrewBlows]

57 minutes is .95 hours. Using standard rounding practices that would be 1 hour. 56 minutes is.933 minutes, which is .9. Over time any rounding up you do will be canceled out by any rounding down you do and your log book will be very accurate.

How do you integrate out and off times into tenths. If I the flight is 57 minutes how much do you put in your logbook, 1.0 or .9.

And the second part is have you ever been called under the carpet for rounding up.

As an FO i used to use the conversion given on our pay sheets, but I was wondering if that was standard practice. thanks

D

 

[Mel Sharples]

As an FO i used to use the conversion given on our pay sheets, but I was wondering if that was standard practice.

That's fine and what most people do. No one is going to spaz unless you are going out of your way to round up. And how they would prove that is pretty tough.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Mel,

Here is the FAA legal opinion on "operates" (from Doc's FAR Forum at propilot.com). So yes, the SIC and FE "operate" the aircraft. The reason a FE does not log actual instrument is because it is "pilot" time and a FE does not log "pilot" time. It does not matter who is PF or PNF, both are "operating" the aircraft.

Like I said, log whatever you want... but I would be careful.

If you are in an interview, when asked how you got so much actual time, what are you going to say? "Well, this guy named Doc has this website where he took an 11-year-old FAA interpretation and says in his opinion I can log actual as a PNF"? That is not exactly a ringing endorsement from the FAA. Until someone can show me SPECIFICALLY where the FAA has approved this on a national level, I advise you to be careful

I personally don't care what you or anyone else logs. All I am saying is that not everyone, including all interviewers and FAA inspectors, agree with that interpreatation. That's it.

 

[buckwheat]

Something to add

Hey just think about flying when the Captian hands over the controls to the FO to brief the Approach now who's flying? As soon as you touch them you can log it all..

 

[JohnnyP]

times

If you wanna put hours and min's into tenths, 6 minutes is .1 But airlines usually record times in hours and minutes not tenths (at least to my knowledge, normally) so wouldnt it be easier to just put in hours and min;s into your logbook. When I got on with my carrier I just converted the finals on one page that were originally in tenths (because obviously the planes had hobbs meters) and began using hours and minutes for everything else since.

 

[DrewBlows]

Like I said, log whatever you want... but I would be careful.

If you are in an interview, when asked how you got so much actual time, what are you going to say? "Well, this guy named Doc has this website where he took an 11-year-old FAA interpretation and says in his opinion I can log actual as a PNF"? That is not exactly a ringing endorsement from the FAA. Until someone can show me SPECIFICALLY where the FAA has approved this on a national level, I advise you to be careful

I personally don't care what you or anyone else logs. All I am saying is that not everyone, including all interviewers and FAA inspectors, agree with that interpreatation. That's it.

http://www.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc

This is a link to the FAQ document from the FAA-AFS 640 (Designee Standardization) branch of the FAA website.

Here is the disclaimer from the same site.

Disclaimer Statement: The answers provided to the questions in this website are not legal interpretations. Only the FAA's Office of Chief Counsel and Regional Chief Counsel provide legal interpretations. The FAA's Office of Chief Counsel does not review this website nor does it disseminate legal interpretations through it. However, there are some answers provided in this website where the FAA Office of Chief Counsel's legal interpretations have been reprinted.



The answers in this website address Frequently Asked Questions on 14 CFR Part 61 and represents FAA Flight Standards Service policy as it relates to this regulation. The answers are as result of questions asked by FAA Flight Standards Service’s Regional Offices, District Offices, and from concerned people from the public. The answers provide for standardization.




Right, this is not a legal interpretation, there isn't a legal interpretation because the FAA really doesn't care about actual instrument time for any kind of currency or rating. This is as good as you will get. It's on a national level and it's pretty specific.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Right, this is not a legal interpretation, there isn't a legal interpretation because the FAA really doesn't care about actual instrument time for any kind of currency or rating. This is as good as you will get. It's on a national level and it's pretty specific.

Thanks for the link, Drew!

I didn't realize this was from the FAA FAQ. I thought it was just from Doc's board (who I do respect by the way, I just wouldn't consider him an "official" source officially). I know this is printed on Doc's board but I didn't realize it came from the FAA FAQ. My bad. . .

But after reading this, it does seem clear. Now THIS is the kind of thing you could probably print and take to an interview if it ever came up.

I agree: The FAA will never spell it out clearly but this is as good as it will get.

Nice work, my man.




.

 

[DrewBlows]

Thanks Mel, that is very nice of you.

 

[Propsync]

Drew- ask your training dept. what they have on a sheet for 'this guys gonna upgrade'. Go from there. Whatever you need, log if it's close and/or appropriate to do so. Everyone, even the FSDO's have a different take on logging time. I don't break my neck logging every tenth. Remember, a logbook is only good for three things:

1. Meeting requirements for additional license/ratings.
2. Starting at the bottom somewhere else.
3. Bragging you have xxxxxxxx time.

I log what I feel. I have a job to do. I don't spend even one minute discussing who logs what. My (our) job is to shuffle people SAFELY. After that, who cares? For you, I guess, focus on #1. Get that ATP from your carrier. Wait if needed. Don't do it part 91. good luck, hope your carrier is in good shape.

 

[a-v-8er]

This thread is outta control...

Just log the conditions of flight, period! If it's night, log night. If it's day, log day. If it's by sole reference to instruments, log instrument. Neither of these have anything to do with the fact that you were the PNF or PF. If you are required for the operation, as with most 121's PIC and SIC, just log it!

Anything that has do to with currency you don't log unless you did it! This includes instrument currency (which has nothing to do with IMC time) and landings.

I'm sure someone will pipe in, the way this discussion is going, and say that you shouldn't really log Multi Engine time if you're flying a twin with one engine rendered inop (since that's technically Single Engine time).

You can log all the IMC you want IF it's actually IMC! There's really no explanation required during an interview. Some might feel you have more or less instrument time than the norm, but this depends a lot on what type of operation you fly for, which altitude and location!

I seriously don't understand what's so hard to understand about this. Common sense!