What the Skywest OC won't tell you

[Nevets]

Just look around the Skywest crew lounges, only 15% of the pilots care to wear ALPA attire. Well lets just say you double or triple that number for people who vote yes and you might get lucky to have 30-45 percent voting yes. The numbers just aren't there. I know its a frustrating thing for many. I am glad its all over in less than 72 hours.

I have talked to many Skywest pilots who say they don't wear it for fear of retribution. Why would they fear retribution considering Skywest lost their federal court case allowing pilots to wear ALPA insignia? There is a good reason why they feel that way.

 

[joe_pilot]

And we thought Gojets pilots were scabs....At least they voted a union in !!!

Go away child, go away.

 

[Soverytired]

I hope ALPA national comes out and says no need apply at CAL,FedEX,DAL,UAL,etc... if you vote no

No doubt you would argue that the mere fact of NOT voting in ALPA makes one a SCAB.

 

[EBE]

yeah, 'cause union guys are never like that.

REGARDLESS OF A UNION!!

They don't want to mention that the hardest group they've had selling is the 'formerly represented by ALPA group.'

Especially the guys who spent a 6 months to a year on reserve at Mesa or whatever other regional before coming to Skywest and who like to say "what did ALPA do for me?"

 

[Troutbait]

EBE,

You are forgetting a basic truth with that silly comment. They are happier here. That is the truth. Who cares if they were there for a few months and came here, if not having a union is what got this company to be what it is then good for them. Overall things are good here. They know that. I was at an ALPA carrier for two years before coming here, I am happier here. You and your friend can rail me and call me a tool, well I am a happier tool here. So I can't really see a logical point in putting those guys down. Who cares if they don't know how a union works or if they never attended a meeting.....They know the difference between an union carrier and a non-union carrier.

 

[Nevets]

EBE,

You are forgetting a basic truth with that silly comment. They are happier here. That is the truth. Who cares if they were there for a few months and came here, if not having a union is what got this company to be what it is then good for them. Overall things are good here. They know that. I was at an ALPA carrier for two years before coming here, I am happier here. You and your friend can rail me and call me a tool, well I am a happier tool here. So I can't really see a logical point in putting those guys down. Who cares if they don't know how a union works or if they never attended a meeting.....They know the difference between an union carrier and a non-union carrier.

The problem is that people are corrolating unions at Mesa with unhappiness. The correct corrolation is the management at Mesa and unhapinnes. Just imagine how much more unhappy people would be if ALPA was NOT at Mesa. Or better yet, imagine your happines at Skywest if you had Mesa's management team? That is evidence that its management who has a DIRECT corrolation with happines.

There are many that are unhappy at Skywest. There are also many that are happy with Skywest. Why is this? Obvisoulsy the ones who are unhappy, its not because of ALPA. The only common thing between the two is management.

Also, there is a good argument to be made against people who complain about ALPA when they don't vote for reps, attend meetings, run for a rep position, volunteer on a committee, call email your rep, MEC officers, EVP, national officers, etc. Its like the people who complain about Bush but didn't even vote at the last election.

 

[J32driver]

EBE,
They know the difference between an union carrier and a non-union carrier.

You are mistaken. Union/Non-Union makes no difference. What these people like about SkyWest is that they now work for a Management group that is better than the last company.

That doesn't mean a Union isn't in order though.

 

[SkyNation]

The problem is that people are corrolating unions at Mesa with unhappiness.

you left out ASA, Comair, AWAC, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Indy, and all the others that have come here. but I guess their experience and insight is worthless, right?

 

[jayme]

Do you honestly think all of those pilot groups would have been better off represented by SAPA?!?

 

[Jmoney]

Worthless

you left out ASA, Comair, AWAC, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Indy, and all the others that have come here. but I guess their experience and insight is worthless, right?

I think, to be more accurate, we would all agree that YOU are worthless, butt pirate!

 

[Nevets]

you left out ASA, Comair, AWAC, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Indy, and all the others that have come here. but I guess their experience and insight is worthless, right?

Sorry, I also left out FedEx, SWA, NetJets, XJT, Horizon, UPS, etc.

The point is that there are pilots at unionized places that are happy and unhappy. There also pilots at Skywest that are happy and unhappy. So therefore corrolating unions with unhappy pilots or no union with happy pilots is absurd when you actually stop and think about it.

 

[Speedtape]

EBE,

You are forgetting a basic truth with that silly comment. They are happier here. That is the truth. Who cares if they were there for a few months and came here, if not having a union is what got this company to be what it is then good for them. Overall things are good here. They know that. I was at an ALPA carrier for two years before coming here, I am happier here. You and your friend can rail me and call me a tool, well I am a happier tool here. So I can't really see a logical point in putting those guys down. Who cares if they don't know how a union works or if they never attended a meeting.....They know the difference between an union carrier and a non-union carrier.

Have you ever stopped to think----Maybe, just maybe, it was the airline you previously worked for that made you unhappy and not ALPA! ALPA is only as strong as the support of the local members! What is apparent is you had the tool to make it better! However, you were unwilling to roll up your sleeves to make the effort! I want fault you there--the world is full of people like you that choose the path of least resistance. People only make change when their comfort level is affected. But don't blame the fact that your last job was bad because ALPA represented your pilots. Your pilots did not work together to make that change!

Skywest is only a good place to work, if you perceive it that way, because there is an ALPA. Your payrates and work rules would not be where they are today if it wasn't for the hard work and sacrifice that a lot of other ALPA pilots have made through the years! Your company provides some of these benefits in this environment to avoid union representation. However, in reality, no Skywest pilot has a contract to protect his pay or benefits--but more importantly his job. No Skywest pilot has an agent or protection against FAA enforcement action, medical deficiencies, or ARBITRARY actions against a pilot brought on by the Company or some abusive Management Tool--like the guy who recently fired one of your pilots for claiming fatigue.

Make yourselves sheep, and you will be devoured by the Wolves. It is only a matter of time!

SAPA MUST BE THE ANSWER!

Because the choice you face really boils down to making a proactive move for ALPA, or do nothing and allow a management contrived ?pilot association? represent your best interests! Your OC would not have any support, if things were so great!

Sorry pal, I have also worked for another carrier with a similar ruse in the form of a "managed association by my employer!" It cost me alot more than ALPA dues! I now work for an ALPA carrier owned by your master! I'll take my ALPA representation over your SAPA any day!

The future is always uncertain. There are no guarantees. But if I have to weigh the odds, and place a bet, I will make the choice of being represented by ALPA. Maybe with a lot of luck, your darkest day will never come in your career. To your company, management, and stockholders, you are only a commodity and are always expendable!

One thing is for certain, things will change and there is a good chance that those things that make your present perception of your company a good one, will change also! Then WHAT? They will leave you in their dust!

Take that to the Bank!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Sorry, I also left out FedEx, SWA, NetJets, XJT, Horizon, UPS, etc.

The point is that there are pilots at unionized places that are happy and unhappy. There also pilots at Skywest that are happy and unhappy. So therefore corrolating unions with unhappy pilots or no union with happy pilots is absurd when you actually stop and think about it.

That's seems to be the problem...Skynation, Vtech, Troutbait, etc. don't stop and think!

 

[Nevets]

Skywest is only a good place to work, if you perceive it that way, because there is an ALPA. Your payrates and work rules would not be where they are today if it wasn't for the hard work and sacrifice that a lot of other ALPA pilots have made through the years! Your company provides some of these benefits in this environment to avoid union representation. However, in reality, no Skywest pilot has a contract to protect his pay or benefits--but more importantly his job. No Skywest pilot has an agent or protection against FAA enforcement action, medical deficiencies, or ARBITRARY actions against a pilot brought on by the Company or some abusive Management Tool--like the guy who recently fired one of your pilots for claiming fatigue.

SAPA MUST BE THE ANSWER!

Because the choice you face really boils down to making a proactive move for ALPA, or do nothing and allow a management contrived ?pilot association? represent your best interests! Your OC would not have any support, if things were so great!

Sorry pal, I have also worked for another carrier with a similar ruse in the form of a "managed association by my employer!" It cost me alot more than ALPA dues! I now work for an ALPA carrier owned by your master! I'll take my ALPA representation over your SAPA any day!

These are a couple of very good points. What Skywest pilots' have in the form of wages and terms of employment are given to them to compete with other ALPA carriers' contract. In other words, other ALPA carriers are doing the work of raising the bar that Skywest pilots indirectly benefit from by the fact of competition for pilots. Skywest management will only give the MINIMUM it thinks it needs to give to remain competative with the contract of other ALPA carriers. Skywest management will NEVER raise the bar in those regards. And that is what is most frustrating to a lot of pilots. That with ALPA on board, Skywest pilots can start raising the bar and in doing so, improving the profession.

The other point, judge Bryer in his decision against Skywest managements tactics against the OC, in part said that SAPA, as it exists now, violates federal law. So either way, SAPA will probably seize to exist in its current form (funded by management). So for those that for some reason think SAPA represents pilots' best interest, you wont have the luxury of that perception if the ALPA drive fails.

 

[Nevets]

That's seems to be the problem...Skynation, Vtech, Troutbait, etc. don't stop and think!

I think the problem is having preconcieved ideas and not being open minded.

 

[Speedtape]

Sorry, I also left out FedEx, SWA, NetJets, XJT, Horizon, UPS, etc.

The point is that there are pilots at unionized places that are happy and unhappy. There also pilots at Skywest that are happy and unhappy. So therefore corrolating unions with unhappy pilots or no union with happy pilots is absurd when you actually stop and think about it.

That is certainly a brilliant observation! Pilots are Pilots--we are cheap, we like to whine, and we always want more than our fairshare. The world revolves around us. However, most of us, aside of all the other flaws, are generally well educated, above average intelligence, and desire better pay and work rules--and did I mention good looking. We are God-like figures--in our own minds! That is the problem!

Management types are not much different. However, because we are labor, our goals are in conflict. Managment would fire all of us tomorrow if they could get robots or computers to fly airplanes. In absence of the possibility of that scenario, they desire for us to work more for less--for the sake of being the most competitive in cost. They know what makes pilots tick, and are always able to hold that carrot out just far enough to keep us moving in the right direction. They also know how to divide us and keep us wondering in the desert for 40 years. Of course, while we are doing this, they keep taking their bonues and golden parachutes,ie. Crandall, Mullins, Wolf, and many, many others.

We are labor. Our labor costs make up a large part of the expense of our companies. There will always be attacks on our pay, as history proves. We have seen first year pay scales, "B" scales, "C" scales (C for commuter pay), labor contracts broken by bankruptcy, PBS, pay overrides instead of legitimate straight rates, 50 seat pay for 76 seat flying, and unverifiable profit sharing schemes replacing pay rates. There are many other attacks--these are just the ones we know.

As pilots, we resist pulling on the same end of the rope because we would have to sacrifice our independence and short term gains for long term progress. After all, the world does revolve around us--individually, unfortunately!

Until we see that we need to bond together, things will remain the same. Until we see that there are strength in numbers, things will remain the same. Until we have coordinated efforts across company lines, things will always be the same.

SAPA is not the answer! That has been proven. ALPA is not perfect, but it is the tool and the bridge to get us there. We need to all pull on the same end of the rope! Be proactive, not passive, in your career choices! The choice is yours. No action is status quo with SAPA--management controlled and contrived. Take charge of your career, pay protection, and benefits and Vote ALPA--pilot controlled and contrived!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote-Why would they fear retribution considering Skywest lost their federal court case allowing pilots to wear ALPA insignia? There is a good reason why they feel that way.
__________________

The court ordered them to re-instate DD and they haven't deemed it necessary to comply with that ruling either. I won't wear the lanyard for that reason. Nov 6 is coming fast and I too, think it's gonna be close. FWIW OC guys have told me the same thing. I'm a SKW lifer and I'm prepared to live with either outcome.

 

[EBE]

The problem is that people are corrolating unions at Mesa with unhappiness. The correct corrolation is the management at Mesa and unhapinnes. Just imagine how much more unhappy people would be if ALPA was NOT at Mesa.

Thanks for spelling it out. I thought people like troutbait would just understand the premise of my post. I should have known better.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"JUST VOTE"

The desperate plea of a failed ALPA drive.

The numbers aren't there to win and the OC knows it.

Just vote... the battle cry of ALPA pilots who practice democracy and particapte in the direction of thier careers... the battle cry to the speechless pilots who have no say in thier careers, work rules, pay.....

Just vote... the opportunity for the Skywest pilots to join a profession. The opportunity to come home and look your family in the face with pride, self repsect and trust....

This kind of false crap is exactly why people don't like the idea of ALPA. This kind of mentality is short sighted or anal myopic.

Agreed... it is a poor repsonse to the the short sighted and anal mypoic view of the skywest pilots... to think that they can be protected by Jerry's bubble.....

This is pure GARBAGE. It is the false idea of this thug mentality that scares people away from representation; it does NOT drive them to it.

Agreed.. it is a poor response to the false idea that the skywest can continue to benefit from ALPA's hard work to make this profession better for Skywest pilots...

The ALPA list that skywest pilots benefit from is quite long.. but they don't want to talk about that.. that don't want to acknowledge the free ride...

It is not what ALPA is about. ALPA is FOR PILOTS hence the P in ALPA.

Agreed... ALPA is even for Skywest pilots... even though skywest pilots are not for skywest pilots. Skywest pilots are for themselves as individuals..

I urge you if you are on the fence, that indifference is the weakest excuse for ignorance. PICK A SIDE, and stick by it.

Better to pick ALPA. With globalization coming stronger and harder the skywest pilots are going to have a tsunami of change sweeping through thier property... but don't buy into my fear... rather...get educated and know reality....

ALPA= free will and democracy
Jerry= no choice, keep quiet and fly or quit.

 

[Troutbait]

Now you are getting me wrong as well. It is not ALPA that made them unhappy, it was the impact ALPA had. You need to do some research. I don't like the bad that comes with the little good that ALPA may bring. I know at Eagle, this is how management works. Every group had their own union. One group would get a in increase in their contract but only at the expense of another. The others would get pissed and moral would go down. Why do I want that here? Why would we want management playing the work groups against each other? Don't even think you can tell me SKYW does that. Moral is better here because there is no union influence. So I will again clear it up. I don't think ALPA is bad. I think a union is bad. I think the influence a union has is bad. Why do I want to be like almost everyone else? You might mention Fedex and the such. Right...first you can't mention Fedex or UPS, different category of industries. Apples and oranges my friend. Netjets is different and XJT, well... we will see (my hat is off to you all at XJT, good job), but their contract came at a different time with a different lead carrier. Now they too had to go to Delta for flying and are flying on their own. If the industry continues its path on this race to the bottom, they too may make concessions. I hope they don't but if you know how to balance a checkbook, then you can see things won't add up forever. Everyone says, ALPA will stop this downward spiral. Right, this spiral has occurred despite ALPA. ALPA and every union has been along for the ride and their supporters cry "Witch!" anytime someone else tries something different. Sorry, but watching this UAW thing unwind and destroy an American legacy is not helping your cause.