What should I do im 17

[Lilbirny21]

So i'm 17 and I have my PPL. I've always kind of wanted to go to embry riddle becasue it has sounded so great. after talkin to people i find out many different things. I hear lots of different ideas on what to do and I really have no idea. I want to one day fly for an airline but i know it will take lots of hours flight instructing and flying cargo, which I would have no problem doing. I know it's impossible to go right out of college and fly with the airlines, but alot of kids my age think you can do that but it's not true. If anyone could give me any schools or advice on what to do that would be great. Or any flight training facilities in florida or south east, that could help me out?

thanks, nick

 

[Lazy8]

Take it from somebody who went there - Avoid ERAU at all costs and any "Aviation College". ERAU is nothing more than a flashy brand name. Overpriced and overhyped.

The best advice anyone can give you is - Go to a in-state public University/College, get a degree in something non-pilot related, enjoy the big college life, and fly at a reputable local flight school/club/FBO. Do your best to avoid student loans.

Best of luck,

Grove

 

[Lazy8]

I hate to reply to my own post - but what the heck - i may as well avoid the impending irrational flame...

Since I'm sure someone is just going to drop in and call me a Riddle Hater.... ERAU, UND, Pan Am Intl, ATPs, DCA, etc... all the same in my book.

No, I don't hate ERAU.
No, the training isn't inadequate at ERAU.
BUT there's no justifiable reason to go there with their insane tuition and flight training costs. Even if you get a great education, you can get the same or more elsewhere for MUCH less (ie. in-state public university). And having ERAU on your resume doesn't help you one bit in the industry!

If you're dead-set on all the glitter and glamour that is 'ERAU' or 'UND' then go tour the schools, talk to actual students (not the tour guides), and spend a little time in the area. If it can make financial sense to you then by all means - go for it. If mom and dad don't flip all your bills... well.. you'll find out the meaning of Forbearance in about 4 years.

Research and make a smart financal plan before you make a decision.

Again - best of luck!

g

 

[elcid]

First of all, good on you for thinking this far out, setting goals, and getting smart on the whole process.

I just want to throw out the military option. I'm sure you've thought about it already, but there are a lot of different paths in the military itself. You didn't mention it so maybe you've ruled it out for one reason of another. By the way, Air Force takes laser eye surgery I believe.

One mil option a lot of people don't know about (I didn't) is the Air National Guard. It's the best of both worlds in my opinion. You rush a unit of your choice, get picked up, then send you to flight school and about 2 years later you're a reservist pilot. One of the great deals about this route is that you get to basically pick what you fly. Active duty guys do not. For them it's luck of the draw with some choice for the top one or two in their class. You can do airlines and military, have a fall back for furlough protection, extra income, a fun, rewarding side job, serve your country (if you're into that), and collect a pay check for the rest of your life.

Active duty is another great way to get into the biz. They have full scholarships that to a lot of great schools. The academies are another great full ride option. No guarantee you get to fly if you go active duty though! You'll move every few years and have little control of your future. Still many people stay for 20 and have great careers and retire (50% of base pay for life + medical) at 42 years old!

The civilian route you are exploring is good too. Timing and luck are the most important factors in my opinion. They say you make your own luck, and that's true to an extent. However you should know that in this industry anything can happen no matter how well you've planned. That being said you could be like the 29 yr old in my SWA new hire class. He will be set if all goes well.

You're doing the right think trying to get the gouge. Explore all of the different options. There's a lot of ways to skin this cat. Best of luck to you!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Go to a "real" university where you can get the full college experience. One where Homecoming involves a Football game instead of a Soccer game.

 

[Sawmill]

I hope you find what you are looking for. Heres a little input on the airline goal. It has been said here a million times but just want to give a little first hand experience. I changed careers and started flying for an airline this year. After making 50-80K per year for the last few years, I got burnt out and decided to fly for a "living". I just got my second paycheck after IOE and it was for a whopping 800 dollars. Add that to the 600 from the first paycheck and I am making right around 17K per year. I know it is not all about money and I knew coming in that the money would be scarce...but I realize now that it is just not worth it and I will have to quit sooner than I had planned. Im actually not bitter here...dont get me wrong, but this whole industry is majoryly messed up. The unions, the whinny high seniority pilots, the fact that anyone with the minimum requirements can get hired regardless of the pay (Im in that last group) add up to a seriously damaged profession. It will take some time but I am sure the industry will work out its problems and to be a pilot, will again one day,not be an embarresment. Mean while, I am going to go back to my old profession and make some some money so I can afford to fly for fun. My leaving will open the doors for another pilot, hopefully someone like you, to realize their dreams of flying for an airline. Good luck what ever route you take.

 

[RockbrigadePC1]

What state are you from?

 

[pilotyip]

My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. Air Inc advertises that 172 airlines and assorted aviation companies are recruiting right now; I only see four that make the degree a showstopper. My assertion that runs contrary to the ‘College is a must” crowd, is that to be competitive for the other 168 places the degree is not necessary. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. Hey its after Easter, I can post this stuff again. Oh! were is Bobby when you need him.

 

[LeadSolo]

Go to college. Do well enough to get into a reputable business school. Enjoy a career in which you pay someone to fly you around.

OR

Join the Marine Corps under an aviation contract that guarantees a shot at flight school. Challenge yourself to do well in flight school. Experience the world, albeit sometimes from the deck of a grey ship. Work with some of the finest 18 and 19 year old warriors out there, all while flying multi-million dollar aircraft you'd never get to fly on the civilian side. When you are satisfied with your service to the country, you can move on to another career on the outside. Your service to country and time as a Marine is something that can never be taken away.

 

[pilotyip]

Leadsolo that is great recommendation, he can also do that in the Army without a college degree as another option. We have a number of fantastic Army trainind pilots working for us, they are great guys

 

[LeadSolo]

I agree with you pilotyip. There are many options for a new pilot out there on the military side. I know from the Marine Corps' perspective this is an exciting time to be in aviation. V-22 is on line and will deploy early next year if not sooner. By the time a 17 year old gets to the fleet, we'll be looking at squadrons of JSFs as well.

 

[Kaudbron]

There is a good reason to go to an aviation school, and that would be......

If you don't give two craps about any other degree subject other then an aviation based degree.

 

[silver02ex]

I think there's many different opinion on this subject, but I wanted to go the cheapest way. I got my private and instrument in high school. After graduation I went to a 141 school / community college, and got the rest of my certifcates and ratings. After that i was a CFI for 2 years. I'm in my 7th month of flying freight now (single pilot IFR in the NW) I don't regret anything that I did.

 

[galaxy5]

Nick,
You're doing something here that a bunch of your peers in high school don't do, think about what they're going to do after college. This industry is in flux but will come back in some form or another. You need to be prepared for anything. Couple of things to think about.

Military option. A very good choice IF you ready to take on a long committment and are prepared to be an officer first. Look at Academies, ROTC, OTS and the Guard and Reserves (is Florida one of those states that pays your tuition if you are in the guard while you're in school?).

Just fly option. If you think that being in the air in any way, shape, or form is all you care about then the part time college, while flying, option might work. You might be a bit young to jump in with both feet on that option. While to the novice it may seem that flying is the beat-all end-all of existance (it's pretty close) there are other things that will shape your decisions as you get older.

ERAU or another school. I had to make the same decision in high school. After the military academy option didn't work out I narrowed my choices down to ERAU and a Florida public university. I chose the public university for the better education (IMO), cheaper education, more degree options, and I didn't like the idea of eating, drinking, and sleeping aviation for 4 years.

Good luck!

 

[galaxy5]

.....

 

[NJAPLT]

Wow, a lot of opinions on this topic, I'll add my two cents.

I went to an aviation college on the east coast of Florida, FIT. Here is their web site for the university and the flight line.
http://www.fit.edu/
http://www.fitaviation.com/

I would highly recommend getting college, even if not an aviation one. My last job was with a commuter airline, and most of the pilots already had degrees. Our chief pilot did not have one, and he could not get interview with even low cost or startup carriers such as Frontier Airlines, while his line pilots with much less time and connections were getting them. A few of the pilots were doing the 4 year correspondence degrees; needless to say it was a huge strain on them, especially after being out of school several years prior. Also, most were taking several years doing the online degrees. Basically, having a college degree might not be stated on the minimums with an airline, but it is always part of the competitive minimums. (Remember, the military services also have colleges too, called academies, where you will get a degree, aloing with your comission.) Without a four year degree in something, even underwater BB stacking, you realistically will not advance past the commuter airline level.

I loved the aviation college experience for the most part. I chose a degree in Aviation Management Flight Technology, which is a combination of Business Management, Airway Science, and Pilot School. The reason I chose this degree is that not only did it have flight school, but also had a fallback business degree in case of loss of medical, etc.

A lot of people have mentioned how the cost is high, and I will confirm that to some extent. But be aware that not only student loans (which you have to pay back), but also tuition wavers are part of a financial aid package. I had over $20,000 given to me by FIT during the four years of college, which worked out to about 25% off of the cost of my college degree. Also, being a college course, government student loans are available, while I doubt that you can get with a mom and pop flight school. I think only private loans are available at mom and pop flight schools.

Another positive of the college flying experience is that you are a known quantity, similar to military pilot. Employers don't like to take risk, so if they have had several great pilots from a particular college they will tend to rank another applicant from that same college higher, as they know if they graduated that program the know their stuff. In addition many of the college flight programs have made deals to get interviews with commuter airlines after graduation. Of course the specifics very by program to program, but some of them will put the top percentage of the class into the right seat of an RJ after graduation. Of course, I would research any of those programs carefully for specifics.

The downside of the go to school and take flight on the side program is that life tends to get in the way of actually flying. Exams, part time work, the girlfriend who wants to go away for a weekend, etc. all contribute to people putting off flying lessons, or having them spaced out. Eventually, when college classes become harder, they may take a semester off from flying, which tends to lead to more long breaks from flying and never finishing getting their certificates.

Other good aviation colleges besides FIT that I can think of off of the top of my head are Embry-Riddle (apply to both campuses individually), University of North Dakota, St. Louis University (they are a religious school), and Daniel Webster University.

Feel Free to PM me about FIT, or other questions, if you care to.

 

[pilotyip]

NJAPLT here is list of places I know have hired pilots in the last seven years without a degree. SWA, JB, NWA, UAL, AirTran, according to Air Inc SWA hires 15% non-colege grads, JB 22% non grads, etc. Yes you can progress beyond the regional without a degree. I have seen it happen too many times. Remember only 4 airlines out of 172 persently hiring make the degree a shop stopper. Do not waste your time in college getting a useless degree in basketweaving. Flight time gets jobs.

 

[NJAPLT]

Add Frontier to that list of places that have hired without degrees, the chief pilot I knew got on with them, but it took him a while longer (several years, in my opinion, that is) than if he was able to check the degree box. I wonder what the percentage of nonmilitary, no college degree applicants get hired? Further, I wonder how many didn't have college degrees that were not part of preferential hiring (i.e. white male pilots)? It would make an interesting statistcal analysis.

By the way, did those statistics come from EEOC, Air Inc., FAA or somewhere else? EDIT: (Nevermind, I reread it and saw that you credited Air Inc.) 15% to 22% sounds high to me. I think Air Inc gets their statistics from people sending them data once they are hired, so they don't count every sucessful hire, just the people that bothered to fill out and send in a form. I don't know how scientific that really is.

I've always been told that once you reach competitive flight times, more time really doesn't really help much. At least, that's the advice I had been given through the years. (My favorite advice was from a retired Western Airlines pilot who told me to fake a logbook and go to the airlines; I decided not to take that advice.)

I've based my advice on what I have personally scene in this industry (been working full time about 10 years as a pilot or flight instructor.) I'm sure with your ratings you have been in this industry longer than me though. Still, I'm just giving my opinion based on my experiences.

Last January, I had an a freak accident where I broke up my leg and knee pretty well. For a while they wern't sure if I would be reable to regain my medical again. I was fortunate to have a good doctor and some brand new medical tech they put in my knee, so I only have a very slight limp after all the rehab, and have no problems with my medical. If the worst had happened, I would have been unable to be a pilot, but I still had a degree to fall back on. Without the degree I would not be competive in nonaviation jobs (except asking if the customer wanted fries with that.)

Food for thought for the young man/woman to think about while they are deciding what to do after high school.

 

[NJAPLT]

I just looked up some statistics on college education for the general population. For the year 2003, 27 percent of the US population has college degrees. Yet, using Air Inc's statistics, those 27 percent obtained over 75 percent of the jobs (worse case.) Leaving the other 73 percent of people to the other 25 percent of the jobs.

Of course, I don't know the actual number of applicants who had degrees vs the general US population. Still, it hints at having a college degree will be a great benefit vs not having one.

If anyone cares to read further, here is the reference I used:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Previously posted on another thread:

High School to the Airlines – Simplified Roadmap to success!

How does a 16-year old high school student get from there to the airlines?

First, everyone’s situation is somewhat different. But in general, aiming to somehow have a job as a CFI while in college is the first good idea. If a person can figure out how to get the money in order to get their Commercial-Instrument and Multiengine ratings while in high school they’ll have the battle half won before that first day of college. Students who enter college with all the ratings are light-years ahead of everyone else. While in high school, a 250-hour “controlled” part 61 program is probably the best approach. Such a program needs to be custom designed with the flight school to include 50 to 100 hours of multiengine time within the 250-hours. .

Choose a college with an aviation program and one where you’ll be sure to get a CFI job either at the college or at the FBO. This is a must in order to have spending money in your pocket and to have a feeling of being on the faculty team. In order to get the CFI job it’s probably be necessary to use one semester at that school to train for your CFI certificate. That way the school will get to know you and you’ll be on an inside track for the CFI job.

It’s good to go to an aviation college or university because such schools usually have several aviation clubs. Join these clubs. The students that you’ll meet in the clubs will be your fiends for a life, plus they’ll also provide networking opportunities for later employment. Camaraderie with the other students of similar interest is a very big plus for choosing the aviation colleges.

It is not necessary to major in an aviation degree program unless you’re a total prop-head. For all the reason shown in the “Biggest lie in Aviation” thread, it’s probably better to major in something of your special interest besides Aviation. This will provide a back-up degree.

After graduation you’ll have probably 800-hours and maybe you’ll have picked up some more multiengine time along the way. These qualifications will probably be enough for a regional airline job.

After a few years you’ll be a CRJ or whatever captain. After about 2-years in the captain position you will be qualified for any major airline or corporate job in the world.

Words or caution, don’t commute to a regional job or your life will be a living hell. Most such people come to hate their work so much that they burn out and change careers. Living local is the only way to do the job. Even with the majors, commuting is hell. No time at home leads to failed marriages and other personal problems.

Good luck.

Questions/comments are welcome.