What really needs to happen at the airlines

jetracer5

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This would be the easiest way to bring our QOL to a fair level

1) Keep your airlines current pay scales
2) Fix the FAA rest/duty time requirements ( 12hrs on 12hrs off)

And here's what would help us all out
Number 4) At least minumum wage for duty time. We deserve to be paid something while we are sitting around at the airlines request. We have to be there so we might as well be getting paid for it.
 

LearLove

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how about stopping the outsourcing of mainline flying. vicious circle this outsourcing. 10+ years ago when I was flying 135 looking for my first 121 commuter gig mesa/coex and eagle were the flavors of the year. Look at them now. currently it is republic, in 7 or so years it will be someone else and the previous outsource airline of choice will be stagnant and furloughing for those unlucky enough to be in the bottom half of the seniority list. and on and on and on......
 

Jar Jar

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Solution: Ban outsourcing of branded flying to contract/subsidiarys.


Continental: "Oh that wasn't a continental flight. no no. that was a COLGAN flight. Totally different.":pimp: /wash hands.
 
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pilotyip

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Lets go back to regulation. Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. BTW SWA the low cost provider has near the top wages, this was done under de-reg. Flying is still a great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want to be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work.
 

Flyby1206

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How about your company must be owned by whatever logo is on your tail? No more flying for 10 carriers, and if Continental Airlines actually owned and operated the Q400s then maybe they would take a more vested interest in the safety/QOL than a smaller regional fighting for business.

P.S. Im just learning to read and I saw Jar Jar posted the same thoughts previously, my bad! :)
 

lineflyer1

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How about your company must be owned by whatever logo is on your tail? No more flying for 10 carriers, and if Continental Airlines actually owned and operated the Q400s then maybe they would take a more vested interest in the safety/QOL than a smaller regional fighting for business.

P.S. Im just learning to read and I saw Jar Jar posted the same thoughts previously, my bad! :)
Well, Continental owns all of Expressjet EMB 145 aircraft. They lease them to Expressjet. What happens one day when Expressjet managment is not willing to fly for the $ CAL wants so CAL leases all of them to Skywest to use?

It almost happened already and those $100,000 captain will be looking at $16k jobs again!
 

Cpt Oveur

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if you keep your current pay rates and reduce the duty day, you're going to make less money. Management wants to reduce cost, but there's go to be a away to get some increases in QOL without making it more expensive.
 

zasca

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current payrates for duty time, not flight time. Pay raise and the company will be dying to make our schedules more efficient.
 

Kalifornia

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Lets go back to regulation. Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. BTW SWA the low cost provider has near the top wages, this was done under de-reg. Flying is still a great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want to be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work.
This kind of post is pathetic and anti-professional pilot as it brings about the expectation that it's really just a hobby that you're getting paid for. Thanks grandpa, I'm sure all the young' ens can learn a lot from a fleet standards MANAGER who's trying to tell all the underlings not to expect much in wages. Glad you learned to fly in a Cub at $5 an hour, but to bring you up to speed, most schools around the nation are charging a hundred grand give or take 50 to get the appropriate training. I just picture you on your days off in rocker chair in the rural backwoods sipping ice tea and believing every pilot should live like that.
 

jmreii

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Lets go back to regulation. Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. BTW SWA the low cost provider has near the top wages, this was done under de-reg. Flying is still a great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want to be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work.

I agree with you on all points but re-regulating this industry. The airlines need to stand on their own or cease to exist.
 

labbats

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We should all post on anonymous message boards and stay mum to congress and management.
 

Kalifornia

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We should all post on anonymous message boards and stay mum to congress and management.
Good point, but sometimes half the battle is dealing with other ignorant so called professional pilots who live in fantasy land and come on here and try to tell the internet generation not to expect much in compensation.
 

727gm

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Well, Continental owns all of Expressjet EMB 145 aircraft. They lease them to Expressjet. What happens one day when Expressjet managment is not willing to fly for the $ CAL wants so CAL leases all of them to Skywest to use?
The suggestion was not that the brand (Continental) own the airplanes, but that they do their own flying. Only pilots on the Continental operating certificate operating Continental flying. Whether that would mean new hiring, purchase, or merge, whatever. The suggestion would specifically prevent this whipsawing of contractor pilot groups, because there would be no contractor pilot groups (and more importantly, no contractor management parasites)

The Congress could direct the FAA to do it, or the FAA could do it as a rule. Reregulation is not necessary, just restrict a company from what is effectively false advertising or bait-and-switch.
 

glasspilot

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How about we go back to a simple concept. No outsourced flight can be in a jet.

Regionals fly regional aircraft. You can identify these aircraft by big honkin propellers on the wings. Make the majors take back the jet flying.

No more SJS. Now there is career progression. Regionals now are in fact regional.

For every job lost at a regional there would be a job gained at a major (or close to it). Now you are on with the major and can get on with your career and stop the endless "stepping stone job" marathon.

The Q400 that went down was bad, but it never would have happened if the jets were flown my the majors. GIA would go out of business if there weren't endless jobs for their piss poor program graduates with a whopping 400 hours total time. If the prop jobs were actually competitive again then quality pilots would get the slots instead of the "my daddy is rich wonder pilot frosted hair ipod toten douchbags" that get them today.

All the majors missed the boat when they allowed the regionals to fly 50 seat RJ's. Now they fly 100+ seat "RJ's". Wait till the A380RJ comes out...
 
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JustaNumber

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Lets go back to regulation. Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed.
So you're advocating furloughing 80% of the pilot workforce, coupled with average fares of $2000-$3000 (1970's fares adjusted for inflation) just so life can be good for you again?!?!? That would do wonders for the US economy. Sounds like a great plan.
 

pilotyip

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Not advocating anything

So you're advocating furloughing 80% of the pilot workforce, coupled with average fares of $2000-$3000 (1970's fares adjusted for inflation) just so life can be good for you again?!?!? That would do wonders for the US economy. Sounds like a great plan.
Pilots want changes to make the industry what it used to be, this would certainly make a few pilots very happy. In the end the consumer will determine airline working conditions, who survives, and who grows. Why the hostility when someone posts something that they do not agree with?
 

JustaNumber

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Pilots want changes to make the industry what it used to be, this would certainly make a few pilots very happy. In the end the consumer will determine airline working conditions, who survives, and who grows. Why the hostility when someone posts something that they do not agree with?
I apologize for coming off as somewhat abrupt. It's easy to get carried away on an anonymous board.

You are absolutely correct that the consumer (taken further: free marketplace) will determine what the industry looks like. One of the problems the industry is facing is it is still adapting to the free market, which didn't exist prior to 1978.

The industry pre-1978 was inefficient, expensive, corrupt, poorly run, and offered poor choice and value to the consumer. Major airline wages even today are built on a foundation of protectionism that was unsustainable. I really don't think that many people (consumers or pilots) want to go back to those days. If the airline industry ever were regulated again back to death, most pilots would lose their jobs, the career would be as attainable as that of astronaut, and the economy would be such a disaster that even the survivors would be miserable.
 

labbats

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I don't think the answer is regulation so much as stopping new players from cutting everyone's margins.

Establish fares that must create profit and disallow predatory pricing on the backs of labor.
 

727gm

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How about we go back to a simple concept.

No outsourced flight can be in a jet.
Being too good to fly a small airplane was what got the majors into this mess in the first place. If a major wants to operate a passenger Navajo into Hereford, Texas it should be flown by someone on their seniority list

Better no contractor planes with brand colors, or same scheme with different colors, or inverted(photo-negative) schemes, and no "Connection, Express, Lite", etc. implying a connection with the major so as to fool the public as to who is doing the flying.
 
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