What Rating after Instrument - COM/ME?

[Alaskaairlines]

Hello!

I am currently in Instrument Rating training. I am wondering which Rating should I pursue next? The Commercial or Mult Engine Rating?

Whats the correct way of doing it, and possibly cheaper.

Thanks!

 

[bobbysamd]

Cheaper v. better

Cheaper would be to go after your Commercial and your single-engine CFI ratings and then get your multi ratings. Better, in my $0.02 opinion, would be to knock out your Commercial X-C requirements in the single, get your Private multi, and then get your Commercial multi and your initial CFI as an MEI (and maybe CFI-I). Then go back and get your single-engine Commercial CFI ratings. In this fashion you can build up a little more multi time and multi PIC than you might if you got your multi ratings later.

There is no "correct" way. Both approaches work. There are plenty of people who defer their multi ratings until later who've become successful professional pilots.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your choice.

PS-As suggested below, a very good way to proceed would be to get your Private multi and do your Instrument and initial Commercial in the multi. Once again, to make your multi time and multi PIC time do double duty. That's how it's done at some of the big schools, such as FSI and ERAU.

 

[BoDEAN]

If you can get the commercial done quickly, do that before the multi. If not, go ME. You will have to shoot some approaches on the multi ride, and due to length of time (weathering) for my commercial, by the time I got my ME I was rusty on instrument stuff, and costed me more cash

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Thanks guys!

I probably will have my Instrument done by the end of July or early August and then I will proceed with the Comm/ME.

Any idea how long it will take for me to get my Inst Rating if I started in June and had 3 lessons a week? Same with Comm/Me?
And I am a fairly quick learner!

Thanks for the help!

 

[aldassy]

If you have not started your Instrument stuff yet, I would recommend getting your Multi done now. Get your instrument rating and commercial rating in the twin. You will have 100 hours of twin time when you graduate, and won't be gouging out the eye's of the other MEI's at your flight school for multi time as a f;ight instructor.
As for those of you who would say it costs too much, look at the reward. Lets say you are planning on spending $150 an hour for dual instruction in a 172 for your instrument and commercial. Then say you could rent the twin at $200. Effectively you are paying $50/hr for twin time you will need to buy anyways. The $150 you are spending for the 172 is already a sunk cost, you need to spend that money to get the rating. So if you add $5000 to the bottom line of your total training, you will get 100 hours of ME time. You actually get to touch the controls, no saftey pilot time. Thats a better bargian than you can get at other places.
If you look at getting your multi later, you will have to spend that $200/hr for lets say 20 hours. You are looking at $4000 for a add-on rating and only 20 hours of ME time. So for the difference of $1000 you can be sitting on 80 more hours of ME time.
Some of you may argue that the prices and estimated hours might be off, but trust me, when you get your multi first, the multi time will be cheaper in the long run.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Aldassy,

thanks for the information! I am doing my ground school for y instrument rating now (Kings), what should I do with that, finish and wait to get the ME Rating first then procede on with Instrument training?

BTW guys are telling me I need to shoot some approches for teh ME check ride, can't do that w/out the Instrument Rating!?

These are the prices at my school:
C172 dual: $108 hr
Duchess: $194 hr

So what would your point of view be from here? I know that multi time is a must in the industry and I want to do this w/out making problems for my self in the near future.

Thanks!

 

[bobbysamd]

Multi v. single

If you can swing the extra bread somehow, do what you propose in the Duchess. I realize it costs more, but you could have a good 50 to 100 hours of multi PIC under your belt when you finish. Once again, consider getting your initial instructor ratings in the multi.

Once again, plenty of people wait to get their multis and are successful. But I feel that doing Instrument and Commercial in the multi is the better way in the long run.

I appreciate aldassy's comment about MEI eye-gouging for multi time. I'll tell you something, though, the multi time eye-gouging never ends, no matter how much multi time you have! It might end if you get on with a commuter, freight, 135, etc. that operates multis.

 

[tinman]

"BTW guys are telling me I need to shoot some approches for teh ME check ride, can't do that w/out the Instrument Rating!?"

Get your ME first, which requires no approaches. You can't log twin PIC w/out the ME add on, then work on your inst. rating in the twin if possible.

I did my ME after my private, then instr., and comm. By the time I had my Comm., I was at 70 hrs. twin time. I didn't think it was worth it too much at the time(expensive), but because of insurance, I wouldn't have my current job in an Aerostar without that multi time. Of course, I'm lucky because I just got the job 2 months ago. My .02

 

[aldassy]

Bobbysamd, if it weren't for your apparent love of the Denver Broncos, I'd buy you a beer next time you are in Seattle. I read and agree with most of your posts, keep up the good work.
P.S. GO SEAHAWKS!!
alaskaairlines-If you are not an instrument pilot, you will NOT have to shoot approaches in the multi. You will only be required to perform the basic maneuvers and demonstrate proficiency in single engine operations.
Once you complete your initial instrument rating in the twin, you will be instrument rated in a single and a twin.
The same is not true for the commercial, you will have to take two different checkrides. However the single engine add on rating for the commercial is widely thought of as the easiest checkride you can take. Since you have already demonstrated instrument proficiency in the twin, you will not have to shoot any approaches on your commercial checkride either.
As far as the instrument ground school is concerned, since they are all on CD_ROM, you will not lose any information by waiting two months. Get your multi rating.
The cost difference between the 172 and the Duchess is more than I would expect, but the same economics still apply. Getting your multi now will put you in a better position at a cheaper overall cost. Think long term, most pilots in your position don't think past the next lesson. If your goal is to fly for an airline, its all about the multi-time. Good Luck

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Thanks for the imput! I am considering doing it that way! Sorry to ask, I probably should know this, but where can I get the written done for teh multi? Do Kings have a course?

And what would you guys estimate the ammount of hours it will take me to get my Comm/Inst in the Multi? I am trying to calculate this!

Thanks!

 

[aldassy]

There is no written test for the multi, you are already a private pilot, this is considered an add-on rating.
You should be able to get this rating in about 10-15 hours, then start work on your instrument.
The time it will take will be somewhat dependent on if you are enrolled Part 141 or Part 61 and how many hours you have to burn to get to 190 or 250 respectively.
Figure 40 hours for the instrument, knowing that some of that time can be shaved down in the simulator.
Figure about another 40 hours for the commercial, but some of that can be considered time building, you should be able to qualify for the test in quite a bit less than that.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Thats fantastic guys! I will be considering this asap!

If I have 100 hours now, and I add another 15 for multi which is 115, then 40 for Instrument makes it 155hrs and then you say its abot 40 to get Commercial? (thought it was like 100?) if its 40 then that give me 205 hrs and rating complete?
That sure sounds like a doable plan for me!

 

[aldassy]

alaskaairlines- Get with your instructor on the specifics of your training. What I recommend can be implemented in a Part 61 or 141 syallbus. You can double up your lessons if you are progressing fast enough. A certain amount of simulator time is needed to qualify for the 190 hour commercial. Look into that with your instructor.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Thanks, I will do that!

That 190 for the commercial certificate it tt right? I am sure I will have lots more by then - thanks for all the help!

 

[bobbysamd]

Seahawks

Bobbysamd, if it weren't for your apparent love of the Denver Broncos, I'd buy you a beer next time you are in Seattle. I read and agree with most of your posts, keep up the good work.
P.S. GO SEAHAWKS!!

At least you guys are out of the AFC West. Holmgren is overrated as a coach but at least he found you guys a quarterback in Matt Hasselbeck, a RB in Shaun Alexander, and a WR in Koren Robinson.

I will take you up on the beverage, my friend. Thanks for your comments.

 

[greyhound]

In my humble opinion,

I think it is better to obtain the ME rating “BEFORE” you have the 250 hours for a comm. ticket.
That is of course if you want to go the Part 61 route. Since you need to accumulate 250 hours anyway,
Might as well use the training for the ME rating “TOWARDS” the 250 hours.
Imagine you are at 250 hours with your SE comm. You will have to add another 20 hours or so just to add a Multi-rating to your Comm. Again, why not use those hours to get to 250? Save yourself some money.
This is how I went about it; 1) Private 2) 50 hrs x-country. 3) Instrument rating 4) ME private 5) Comm. Multi. Another advantage in obtaining your ME private first, is to be able to build multi-Pic time that is required for a Multi-comm. (I think you need 10 hrs of PIC in a multi). If you don’t have your multi private, you can’t claim PIC, so you have to have it first.
You can always add a single-engine rating to your multi- commercial afterward, maybe just the 3-5hours with an instructor in preparation for the checkride. You will meet most of the aeronautical experience for the SE rating by that time too. So at about 260 hours you can begin your CFI training.
But as always co-ordinate with your instructor, you never know how much he/she wants to milk you,
Check out the requirements up yourself in the regs. Just in case you have to defend yourself when your school says you have to do something, and it really isn’t necessary. Good luck!

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Thanks for the great advice greyhound!

Appreciate it!

 

[sjflyer]

What to do first

The first thing that I would do and I wish that someone had told me is 5 min after you take your instrument written take the CFII written. They are from the same database.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Really? I only have the Kings Instrument course, but how would the CFII be clasified?

I'll definately look into that!

-Dmitry

 

[bobbysamd]

What to do third

The first thing that I would do and I wish that someone had told me is 5 min after you take your instrument written take the CFII written. They are from the same database.

And five minutes after you take the FII written take the IGI written. You'll be taking the FOI written anyway for your CFI, so taking it and the IGI to FSDO gives you an Instrument Ground Instructor certificate.

By the way, ground instructor certificates do not expire. If you ever have a certificate and/or medical problem you can use your ground instructor certificate to teach ground school or sim.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Wow thanks!

So much healthy info!

So would you guys give me some advice on how to overcome each step with the writtens, gs's, etc?

Like I have been saying, I am about 1/3 through the Kings Inst Course, now what would should I do to learn the CFII and IGI bs basics for the written?
Now what is an FOI, not clicking.

Mind telling what the major differences are between the INST, CFII, and IGI written are?
I wan't to be able to get them all done with one shot - so lots of studying will have to take place.
Its basically 3 birds with one stone!

Thanks fellas!

 

[bobbysamd]

IGI written

Mind telling what the major differences are between the INST, CFII, and IGI written are?

They're really about the same. I believe the CFI-I and IGI might have 80 questions, as compared to 60 for the instrument written. That may have changed.

All three writtens are drawn from the same question bank. That's why you should consider taking all three at once, if not within days of each other.

The FOI is the Fundamentals of Instructing written. That exam is required for any instructor certficate. The reference source is the Aviation Instructor's Handbook. In my $0.02 opinion, the FOI is among the most important parts of the course because you gain insight in how people learn and how to teach.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Re: IGI written

They're really about the same. I believe the CFI-I and IGI might have 80 questions, as compared to 60 for the instrument written. That may have changed.

All three writtens are drawn from the same question bank. That's why you should consider taking all three at once, if not within days of each other.

The FOI is the Fundamentals of Instructing written. That exam is required for any instructor certficate. The reference source is the Aviation Instructor's Handbook. In my $0.02 opinion, the FOI is among the most important parts of the course because you gain insight in how people learn and how to teach.

Thanks!
But is there a seperate ground school for teh CFII and IGI, I believe there is for the CFII, I think I may have some video tapes from Kings.
But do you recommend taking the FOI also at the same time? Does it have much to do with the Instrument course, or is that totally different?

 

[bobbysamd]

FOI

The FOI relates only to aviation to the extent that it pertains to aviation instructors. It is really more about educational psychology. As I wrote above, absorbing the principles of the FOI will really help you as an instructor. I consider the FOI to be extremely important because its principles really work. You can take that exam anytime.

 

[RFtech]

will ground certificates carry any weight when you go for your CFI oral?

 

[bobbysamd]

AGI-IGI

will ground certificates carry any weight when you go for your CFI oral?

If you're asking if you get any credit for them during the oral, the answer is "no." But don't discount their value.

Ground instructor certificates look good on a resume and just might help you get a job one day. I'm sure my ground instructor certificates helped me get my job at Mesa. Along with flight instructing I taught Commercial ground while I was with MAPD.

I strongly recommend that aspiring CFIs get their ground instructor certificates. Very little additional brain damage is required because of the writtens' similarity. You have to take the FOI anyway for CFI. Moreover, ground instructor certificates are required for Gold Seal CFI, which definitely looks keen on a resume.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Given the current state of the industry, perhaps CPA, MBA, MD or something like that.

 

[RFtech]

bobby,

thanks again for the info.

i am definetly going to get them.

 

[SammyG]

Wow..I just found this thread, and it may apply to me too. I'm about to start my instrument training. Guess I should re-evaluate and see if it's feasible for my to get private-multi first.

Interesting post...thanks guys!

 

[Alaskaairlines]

SammyG,

its a very indept thread - Thanks to all the great members on this forum, who are willing to give advise to a new pilot.