What Is This????

[PilotChapin]

I'm trying to figure out why it was necessary to post something so classless.

The kid has 700 hours. He is flying a KA. That's not too bad. Who of us had a full time P91 job flying turbine equipment at 700 hours? There is a noticable difference in his attitude and your airline attitude. Are you sure you are in the right place?

No, the aircraft does not require 2 pilots, but what to say the company policies do not?

Finally, it gets worse than this. There is an operator in FL that has the pilots come in on the days they don't fly and prepare the fruit catering trays. They say it saves them $. Who has the better deal?

Well I am aware of 135 requirements on some companies. But part 91....hmmm not sure about that one. Hey if the kid wants to get paid by wiping down airplanes then so be it....

 

[FracCapt]

I flew in recently into a Midwestern airport, and I began a conversation with a Corporate Lear 31 pilot. The guy flies for a large corporate flight dept that operates alot of lears...some of you might already know who I am talking about. Anyway, after talking about life, jobs and what not. The fellow pilot metioned something that really came to my attention. He said that at this flight department they make some of their pilots wipe down their landing gear struts after flights. I laughed at first but then realized that the guy was serious. Has anyone heard of this BS....is their a good reason behind this besides being an ass. Anyone??

Wow, you're a real prima donna aren't you? Too good to spend a minute doing something like this when you're at a facility that you don't have company MX? If you've ever worked on an airplane, you may have some idea as to why this could make a difference, and what it accomplishes(keeping the strut shiny notwithstanding). I don't see this as a vanity issue, but an equipment longevity issue.

Before you lash out at me....no, I don't work for the company you are speaking of, and my company doesn't require any such thing....but I DO see the value in it. I am also not a low time pilot(though, not high time either - only 7500 hours), so find another reason to call me an idiot.

If you have gone 11k hours in aviation and still don't understand what potential benefit could come of this, I'm glad I don't work with you. BTW, if there's something to wipe off the struts....it could be indicating a problem that YOU may want to know about.

 

[Diesel]

Actually to be honest I've never done it unless I was doing a 100hr on a plane then I'd wipe them down just to make sure that they weren't gouging. Never done it on the ramp. I have in my uniform, changed out jugs and troubleshot an electrical problem along with a variety of problems.

My old job you had to be a jack of all trades. Just like a pilot in alaska. I enjoyed the work, the experience and the fun. If you've never waterskiied behind a seaplane... it takes two tow ropes not one.

But i guess if you were born into your plane you can just lay on the couch without pitching in to help. Different work ethic i guess.

 

[PilotChapin]

Well you know, not only crappy operators do it...as a matter of fact I have friends that fly for 135 operators (24/7 on the road all the time type) and they never do it....I actually did contracting for a pretty crummy 135 op out of FL and never did I do that. It wasnt actually until my present job that I learned about the "issue".

That's BS flybet....wanna come and work with me. You'll do actual pilot duties, not MX bullsh!t. I think some of you guys just need to say " No" from the start. I mean flying the airplane, dealing with PAX, paperwork and management and then give the airplane a bath wipe sh!t down....that's just crap. Like G said, that's why you have mechanics or you pay people to maintain the airplanes appearance.

 

[Diesel]

Okay so you have a small company 3 pilots 9 planes and 2 mechanics. The end of the day is here and the navajo came in with a funky magneto. You ask Skip to look at it so he starts working on it. You've flown all day, but Skip has also been working in the hanger all day to change out the turbo on the 210.

You both are hot and tired but coming in that night you just added another 3 hours to Skip's workload. So you pitch in, help uncowl the engine and start taking the farings off. Skip's glancing at his watch and you know it's Dinner time. You run down to Stubbys and get a couple of pizzas the boys will be home soon and the job will go quicker.

Here comes mike with the 180 on floats, low and fast over the hanger. he knows we are still up there and after a little while mike shows up at the hanger to get the plane ready for the morning.

3 of us are now working on the plane and the job is almost done. Mag changed out, engine ran, mike is fueling the plane for the AM. King air is just landing from a trip, (going out at 4am). Just got to fuel it and then it's time for a quick trip of waterskiing before bed.

That was my life for 7 years. No scumbag 135 operator. Just any operator who is in the middle of nowhere where everybody has to pitch in.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Actually to be honest I've never done it unless I was doing a 100hr on a plane then I'd wipe them down just to make sure that they weren't gouging. Never done it on the ramp. I have in my uniform, changed out jugs and troubleshot an electrical problem along with a variety of problems.

My old job you had to be a jack of all trades. Just like a pilot in alaska. I enjoyed the work, the experience and the fun. If you've never waterskiied behind a seaplane... it takes two tow ropes not one.

But i guess if you were born into your plane you can just lay on the couch without pitching in to help. Different work ethic i guess.

no not at all ethics related...just very different jobs I would say.

Im too tired after 13+hr legs/16+hr duty days to be trusted wrenching on the jet...or to "pitch in" with mx issues. Just call me at the hotel if it cant be ready for our show the next day. Im expected to get rest and be 100%, not "pitch in" to save a few pennies or be a team player.

I can see your point about Alaska, bush etc....didnt think that was the arena here.

 

[suen1843]

Actually to be honest I've never done it unless I was doing a 100hr on a plane then I'd wipe them down just to make sure that they weren't gouging. Never done it on the ramp. I have in my uniform, changed out jugs and troubleshot an electrical problem along with a variety of problems.

My old job you had to be a jack of all trades. Just like a pilot in alaska. I enjoyed the work, the experience and the fun. If you've never waterskiied behind a seaplane... it takes two tow ropes not one.

But i guess if you were born into your plane you can just lay on the couch without pitching in to help. Different work ethic i guess.

ALL RIGHT, DIESEL. I take back all the bad things I have said about you. I thought the gang I worked with many, many years ago were the only people dumb enough to pull off the waterski stunt. Just remember, don't use 38 foot slalom ropes behind a Beaver. Got that T-shirt. (PS...statute of limitations make it safe to repeat).

 

[Diesel]

Suen you ever fly externally loaded Propane bottles? God i allways thought if I crashed it would look like heroshima. Two fat boys strapped to the floats. eeeech

 

[Diesel]

Point taken G200.

There is a difference between saving money and having no other choice due to location.

 

[PilotChapin]

Point taken G200.

There is a difference between saving money and having no other choice due to location.

see we can all get along

 

[suen1843]

Suen you ever fly externally loaded Propane bottles? God i allways thought if I crashed it would look like heroshima. Two fat boys strapped to the floats. eeeech

No...never tried that one but have seen it. Asked my buddy about it and he swore they were empty. Yeah...right. Empty bottles heading north.
But, I did fly a TwinBeech that had the JATO bottles installed. Always did wonder how big the boom would be if we ever crashed that one.

 

[HMR]

I'm a terrible airplane mechanic. My toolkit consists of a butter knife and a hammer. My boss hired me to fly the plane not fix it. I did take it upon myself to pick up the phone last week and call the same cleaning service that all of the other local dept's use. For $1225 they made our plane look alot better than I could've. They even got the struts.

BTW- What's the deal with this corporate board? Everytime a PT91 pilot posts about getting paid well or refusing to perform non-flying duties (i.e. preparing fruit trays, turning wrenches, wiping down struts) they get jumped on by a bunch of Frac, charter and/or 700hr pilots calling them "prima donnas". What's so bad about a company that hires pilots to fly, A&P's to wrench, someone else to clean and pays them all a good wage to do the job?

 

[FL420]

I have always wiped the struts on every a/c I have ever flown that had oleo struts. Sand and grit ruins seals and starts seepage which attracts more dirt and grit.

The last thing(well, ONE of the last things) I wanted to happen was a strut seal to blowout on touchdown coming aboard the boat. I am the one paying for the hydraulic fluid, seals, downtime and strut re-chroming on my own a/c so you bet I wipe them down when they need it.

Aircraft are the tools of my trade and I take care of my tools.

 

[Blackjet]

What's so bad about a company that hires pilots to fly, A&P's to wrench, someone else to clean and pays them all a good wage to do the job?

You're not seeing the whole picture here. For the most part, I don't think anyone is asking anybody to fly the airplane, fix it, and clean it. What's going on is the employer asking the pilot to "help out" a little bit with things that do not involve flying. As a corporate pilot, what's the difference in climbing into a dirty baggage area under the LH dirty engine of a BE40 to throw bags and wiping a sturt down. That whole area is filthy. If the strut needs wiped for preventaive MX, and it's something simple, then why not do what they asked? Refusing to do something like this one of those stories you hear about a guy that always says, "Well, that not my job". Refusing to do something like this is childish. I suppose you do not straighten up the cabin either when the passengers leave? THat's not for the pilots to do. That is a non-flying related item. That should be left for the cleaner or F/A, right? Why dont you tell the boss you are not going to do that either?????

It's getting to a unacceptable point where these guys can't find enough work ethic to help out a little when it's needed. Wiping off a strut at the end of a day is NOT unreasonable. Sand/dirt creates friction on a device that should operate in a smooth, fluid motion. So yes, it needs to be attended to.

There are many people on this board that understand that being a corporate pilot has little to do with actually flying and a lot to do with making sure the details are in order. If it were about flying, then move aside for the regional pilots flying 3 and 4 ILSs a day, 4 days a week, on 12 hour duty days. If you want to embarass yourself, try going up against one of those guys and you'll learn just what doing several ILSs a day does for instument skills.

It's funny how these types of "pilots" that refuse to do anything but come in, fly their trips then go home, while refusig to share the load of things that need to be done, ask for raises and are just in awe when it does not come through for them. At this point, in their eyes of course, it's become a matter of the company screwing them and they do too much around here to get treated like that. Blah Blah Blah

 

[FlyingFisherman]

I remember once shortly after upgrade training from First Officer to Captain on a 172 I wiped down the strut on the nosewheel. Allow me to tell you this in hopes it may save a life someday.



Our company had just purchased a new SP model and my FO hadn't had differences training yet so I was to conduct his IOE in the new fuel injected model. We got to V1 and the airplane began to shake. Being the level headed captain I increased back pressure and kept a little weight off the nosewheel while we rotated on our short 5000' runway.

Once airborne I began to troubleshoot with the landing gear system a bit. My FO suggested we cycle the carb heat but since he hadn't even been in a sim he didn't know that Cessna thought better of removing that feature. When he found out there was no carb heat...he was no longer a contributing member of the crew. So there we were, VFR in Class D airspace with an unknown landing gear situation.

We contacted the FBO Dispatch via radio and asked for the head mechanic. After pouring through pages of manuals on the ground and us reviewing the QRH and POH in the air we came to the conclusion that since we didn't have 3 green lights we needed to assume the nosewheel wasn't going to be there for us.

We informed the tower of our situation and circled the airport doing some climbs/descents to try to get ANY indication of the nosewheel in the cockpit. After an hour of burining off fuel we had nothing and the best decision at that point was to land.

We set up for the approach coming in on a pretty tight 3 mile final and tightened our seatbelts and cracked open the doors. I had my FO standby with the fire extinguisher that we'd unbuckled from the floor in case something happened. Flaps 20 at a mile final and we were comitted to land...the point of no return.

Over the numbers I pulled the power back and touched down mains first. As our airspeed slowed I kept adding back pressure until the elevator was nearing full deflection. The nosewheel had to come down and I did my best to make it a gentle touchdown. The shimmy was there with a lound what I'll call a "Clang." I cut the mixture, mags and master switch and when the airplane came to a stop we did an emergency evacuation (we were able to evacuate the airplane in under 60 seconds!) and we took cover in a ditch waiting for that sucker to explode.

Fortunately it never happened. The airplane was pulled into the hangar and the strut was refilled with fluid/air. While the mechanics were putting away their tools, I took a shop rag and wiped off the strut.

The end.

Seriously...fly safe out there.

Have you just looked at a strut and thought "thats pretty dirty!" You're in the hangar at 4:30 with passengers showing up at 5am. You wouldn't take a minute out of your busy day to help the image (a clean plane is a safe plane...don'tcha know?) for the people boarding because it's beneath you?

 

[BenderGonzales]

You know, it's not corporate but a lot of folks have "dirty jobs" out there. Years ago as a Jetstream 31 pilot i'd spin the prop 20 rotations after every leg (to cool the shaft).

A few years later as a Saab FO, I had to stick my hand up between the dirty, nasty gear-doors and find the little ring to pull to get them open. Then i'd insert the gear pins. (that was awful)

A few years later as an RJ pilot I'd climb back into the tailcone, stand underneath a dirty, oily, noisy APU and add oil to both engines using the RJ's onboard oil pump. Yuk!

I'd venture that most of us check the oil on our light-jets... on a windy day that can be messy!

Maybe we fill the coffee pot and spill sometimes as well.

(shrug) Just part of the job I suppose. Not the best part by any means.

The only time I ever did NOTHING but fly was when I worked for a major. We were prima-donnas to say the least. Nothing humbles you as much as a few furloughs.

Where's the rag... i'll wipe the struts for you.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

see we can all get along

lets not get crazy here!

you chumps wipe the struts and polish the spinners (good boys, good boys) -- I'll take my non team player attitude and bad work ethic and meet ya at the hotel.

 

[FlyingFisherman]

you chumps wipe the struts and polish the spinners

Hang on...

Those are two very different animals. Giving the struts a wipe versus polishing the spinners? 2 minutes as opposed to up to an hour. To do spinneres properly you need Flix, a good electric polisher and lots of shop rags. Of course when I was a line guy I used them as mirrors when I brushed my teeth, too.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hang on...

To do spinneres properly you need Flix, a good electric polisher and lots of shop rags. .

me thinks you just need a Mexican.


:beer:

 

[h25b]

We operate our Learjet 31A, and YES, wipe the struts upon return to base. It takes all of about 5 minutes and if you can't handle doing such a very small task for getting paid above industry average, hit the road... The next highest paying Learjet 31A position in the area starts its Captains out around 20K less/yr than what we start an F.O. out.

We've got a few good things to gripe about, but having to wipe the struts doesn't qualify...

I have spoken to many different maintenance and field reps. that verify this as a good practice. The department that the original poster was speaking of is Wal-Mart's. They've got issues like any other department, but having to wipe the struts ??? BFD...

Bottom line, it does make a difference and I'll bet there are at least 30 resumes in my briefcase of very qualified individuals that wouldn't mind in the least wiping the struts for a 20K raise, awesome 401K, and outstanding medical coverage while working 13-14 days/mo. with an average of about 2 RON's/mo.