What is the type rating of a B-717?

[Daddy]

A DC-9 is a DC-9 type, but so is any MD-80, 83, 90 etc aircraft...does anyone know if a B-717 still carries the DC-9 type rating like the MD-80 series or is it a whole new one?

 

[Steeler Fan]

It's a DC-9 type...and yes, you have to use a mirror to see the standby mag compass

 

[enigma]

It's a DC-9 type...and yes, you have to use a mirror to see the standby mag compass

Do ya have to open the crossbleed valves to get anti-ice?

I thought that I read somewhere that you do.

It's hard to believe that McBoeing couldn't find a way around the mechanical pneumatic crossbleed valves.

enigma

 

[DonVerita]

The DC9 and the 717 are two totally different animals, yet they both carry the same type rating. I've always wondered how much corporate pressure was put on the FAA to allow this. The airplanes are night and day different. Whereas the DC9 is a haphazard layout of antiquated systems and round dials; the 717 is state of the art all glass Liquid Crystal Display systems using just about every new form of technology available and with new de-rateable very powerful engines. Training Dept. likes to say that it would take (3) DC9 engines to equal the power of (2) 717 engines.

Put it to you this way...if a DC9 pilot walked into the sim of a 717, he would be hopelessly lost...and vice versa.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Back when you flew -9's (can't remember if you still have any), was going back and forth on the line difficult? I'm thinking its probably like the WN guys flying all the 737 types.

 

[T-Gates]

Back when you flew -9's (can't remember if you still have any), was going back and forth on the line difficult? I'm thinking its probably like the WN guys flying all the 737 types.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they were flown as two seperate fleet types.

 

[DCitrus9]

They do not have the mechanical pneumatic crossfeed valves like the -9.

We have always operated them as two separate fleets. Although not technically required, it is definitely a smart move.

 

[FL717]

Do ya have to open the crossbleed valves to get anti-ice?

enigma

No. There is no crossfeed valves on the 717 pedestal like we had on the DC-9. There is an isolation valve that must be "Open" while starting the left engine. It is a switch on the overhead panel. After the left engine start, the switch is placed in "Auto" and no other action is required.

To turn Airfoil antiice on... its all just flipping antiice switches on the overhead panel. In single bleed source operation... no difference. The isolation valve does it all as long as the switch is in auto.

The B-717 is by far the easiest aircraft as far as systems goes. They took out all the archaic DC-9 functions and simplified it to nothing.

 

[FLB717]

They have a lot in common...the same windows, fuel switchs, window handle, yoke and tiller........... Thats about it.

 

[DonVerita]

Back when you flew -9's (can't remember if you still have any), was going back and forth on the line difficult? I'm thinking its probably like the WN guys flying all the 737 types.

I believe they only had one line of DC9, that was the -30. In any case, DC9 pilots flew the DC9 exclusively and B717 pilots flew the B717 exclusively. Thank GOD all the DC 9's were retired about one year ago. Now it is all 717's and 737-700's, with -800's hopefully arriving in the near future. Some of the marketing data put out to the public mentions AirTran as having the youngest all-Boeing fleet in the world. Sounds about right.

 

[DCitrus9]

"They have a lot in common...the same windows, fuel switchs, window handle, yoke and tiller........... "

Not quite. Different yoke, but same leaky windows.

 

[FL717]

They have a lot in common...the same windows, fuel switchs, window handle, yoke and tiller........... Thats about it.

Thats a pretty accurate assessment.

The fuel switches are different in design and functionality. In design the DC-9 had the mechanical "levers" with locking push button pins, and they actually introduced fuel when you move them up.

The 717 fuel switches are actually locking "switches" that have warning lights in them and all..... wow... science! In auto ignition during a "normal" start they do not, however, actually introduce fuel. They simply request that fuel be introduced and the EEC's and other gee whiz toys decide if you get fuel or not.

Same old archaic window handles, and leaky windows.....LOL!

No more questions..... I need to dump all this DC-9/B-717 information since I'm off training for the B-737.

 

[-9Capt]

No window handles in the DC-9, unless you're talking about the state of the art latch handle.

They did a great job of improving a great airplane.

The anti-ice system was completely dumbed down to pilot level. Engine fire detection system simplified also. Nearly identical flight controls (cable/pullys), Auto-throttles, EGPWS, Predictive windshear, lots of extra power if you need it, a fraction of the memory items/ limitations and worlds most uncomfortable pilot seats.

 

[FL717]

No window handles in the DC-9, unless you're talking about the state of the art latch handle.

We're talking cockpit window handles... right. Its been several years, but I remember them being identical.

Which handles are we talking about?

 

[-9Capt]

I thought you were talking about the grab handle above each pilot window, my bad.

 

[FL717]

I thought you were talking about the grab handle above each pilot window, my bad.

I gotcha now! Yeah those ARE different as well.

 

[FLB717]

I meant the Electric Fuel Pump SW.

 

[singlespeed]

Thats a pretty accurate assessment.

No more questions..... I need to dump all this DC-9/B-717 information since I'm off training for the B-737.

FL717,
I hate when people come here and brag about all the crap they get to fly. Man it gets old. I’ll send you my regards from KHYS or KSLN or one of the other exotic places I get to go. Bye the way don’t forget to call me Mr. Big Shot 737 captain, can I have your autograph. Ok I’m done busting your ba!!s. See yeah.

 

[FL717]

FL717,
I hate when people come here and brag about all the crap they get to fly. Man it gets old. I’ll send you my regards from KHYS or KSLN or one of the other exotic places I get to go. Bye the way don’t forget to call me Mr. Big Shot 737 captain, can I have your autograph. Ok I’m done busting your ba!!s. See yeah.

LOL! Thats because you never answer your d*mn cell phone! Besides you already have your 737 type so shut the he!! up.

Doesn't the wife have some chores for you.... like fixing that old burnt up TV of yours?!!

 

[FL717]

I meant the Electric Fuel Pump SW.

Oh yeah... the ole' DC Start pump. LOL!

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

I'm sure an MD-11 guy would figure his way around in a 717 pretty quick.

MD-11
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=519122&WxsIERv=TWNEb25uZWxsIERvdWdsYXMgTUQtMTE%3D&WdsYXMg=RmlubmFpcg%3D%3D&QtODMg=SGVsc2lua2kgLSBWYW50YWEgKEhFTCAvIEVGSEsp&ERDLTkt=RmlubGFuZA%3D%3D&ktODMp=RmVicnVhcnkgMjIsIDIwMDQ%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=SGFycmkgS29za2luZW4%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=T0gtTEdD&MgTUQtODMgKE=VGhlIGZsaWdodCBjcmV3IGlzIGRvaW5nIHRoZWlyIHBhcGVyd29yayBhdCB0aGUgZ2F0ZSBpbiBIZWxzaW5raSBhZnRlciA4IGggNTAgbWluIGZsaWdodCBBWTAzNCBmcm9tIE1pYW1pLiBUaGFua3MgdG8gdGhlIGNyZXcgZm9yIHRoZSBwaG90by4%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzI4MA%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0wMi0yOA%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=NDg1MTIvNTI5&static=yes

B-717

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=478313&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDcxNy0yQkw%3D&WdsYXMg=TWlkd2VzdCBBaXJsaW5lcw%3D%3D&QtODMg=TG9uZyBCZWFjaCAtIERhdWdoZXJ0eSBGaWVsZCAoTEdCIC8gS0xHQik%3D&ERDLTkt=VVNBIC0gQ2FsaWZvcm5pYQ%3D%3D&ktODMp=RGVjZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMDM%3D&BP=1&WNEb25u=S29uc3RhbnRpbiB2b24gV2VkZWxzdGFlZHQ%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=TjkxNE1F&MgTUQtODMgKE=TmljZSBjbGVhbiBmbGlnaHQgZGVjaw%3D%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=Njk0NQ%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMy0xMi0yNg%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes

At least the bottom halfs look similar. Looks like you start engines in the same place as where you turn them off in MD-11....I like that better.

 

[TonyC]

I'm sure an MD-11 guy would figure his way around in a 717 pretty quick.

MD-11
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=519122&WxsIERv=TWNEb25uZWxsIERvdWdsYXMgTUQtMTE%3D&WdsYXMg=RmlubmFpcg%3D%3D&QtODMg=SGVsc2lua2kgLSBWYW50YWEgKEhFTCAvIEVGSEsp&ERDLTkt=RmlubGFuZA%3D%3D&ktODMp=RmVicnVhcnkgMjIsIDIwMDQ%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=SGFycmkgS29za2luZW4%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=T0gtTEdD&MgTUQtODMgKE=VGhlIGZsaWdodCBjcmV3IGlzIGRvaW5nIHRoZWlyIHBhcGVyd29yayBhdCB0aGUgZ2F0ZSBpbiBIZWxzaW5raSBhZnRlciA4IGggNTAgbWluIGZsaWdodCBBWTAzNCBmcm9tIE1pYW1pLiBUaGFua3MgdG8gdGhlIGNyZXcgZm9yIHRoZSBwaG90by4%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzI4MA%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0wMi0yOA%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=NDg1MTIvNTI5&static=yes

B-717

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=478313&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDcxNy0yQkw%3D&WdsYXMg=TWlkd2VzdCBBaXJsaW5lcw%3D%3D&QtODMg=TG9uZyBCZWFjaCAtIERhdWdoZXJ0eSBGaWVsZCAoTEdCIC8gS0xHQik%3D&ERDLTkt=VVNBIC0gQ2FsaWZvcm5pYQ%3D%3D&ktODMp=RGVjZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMDM%3D&BP=1&WNEb25u=S29uc3RhbnRpbiB2b24gV2VkZWxzdGFlZHQ%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=TjkxNE1F&MgTUQtODMgKE=TmljZSBjbGVhbiBmbGlnaHQgZGVjaw%3D%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=Njk0NQ%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMy0xMi0yNg%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes

At least the bottom halfs look similar. Looks like you start engines in the same place as where you turn them off in MD-11....I like that better.

Honeywell includes both the MD-11 and the 717 in the same FMS book, along with the MD-10. Guess that'd take a few days off of groundschool, or at least allow more time to study the systems.

 

[lawfly]

Okay, you guys are actually flying this or similar equipment, so what do I know. But when I want to see which models are covered by which type ratings, I look at Appendix 2 to AC 61-89E (available online through FAA website). As I read that Appendix and the "comment" that also appears on the website, the B-717 is a separate type rating from the DC-9. The entry on the chart is actually "B-17", but the "comment" clarifies that "B-17" is a typo and should be "B-717". Moreover, B-717 is not listed on the chart (Appendix 2) as being among models covered by DC-9 type. Maybe somebody else can check out the chart and the comment. I have used the chart to confirm which models are covered by my CE-500 type. Anyway, as I said, you guys are flying similar equipment as the 717. I'm not, but just thought I'd pass along my reading of AC 61-89E, Appendix 2. Being a lawyer and all. Regards to all.

 

[DrRaptor]

Okay, you guys are actually flying this or similar equipment, so what do I know. But when I want to see which models are covered by which type ratings, I look at Appendix 2 to AC 61-89E (available online through FAA website). As I read that Appendix and the "comment" that also appears on the website, the B-717 is a separate type rating from the DC-9. The entry on the chart is actually "B-17", but the "comment" clarifies that "B-17" is a typo and should be "B-717". Moreover, B-717 is not listed on the chart (Appendix 2) as being among models covered by DC-9 type. Maybe somebody else can check out the chart and the comment. I have used the chart to confirm which models are covered by my CE-500 type. Anyway, as I said, you guys are flying similar equipment as the 717. I'm not, but just thought I'd pass along my reading of AC 61-89E, Appendix 2. Being a lawyer and all. Regards to all.

That sounds right to my understanding.

The B717-200 is Type Certificated as a DC-9 family member, but does not have the same Type Rating. I thought that you had to have a separate Type Rating for the MD-80 as well, but I could be off on that.

This is similar to the situation with the 767-400 in DAL configuration is NOT included in the 757/767 Type Rating for the pilots, but IS included on a DAL pilot's 777 Type Rating. The difference between the two however is that on the B717-200 differences training I don't believe is acceptable for transition to a B717-200 type rating whereas a person holding a normal 777 Type Rating only needs diferences training to be able to add the DAL 764 to their rating. I specify DAL since COA put a 757/767-style cockpit in their aircraft instead of the 777-style 'pit DAL chose.

Speaking of the MD-10, it's Type Certificated as a DC-10 derivative, but a DC-10 captain can't fly it because it's not Type Rated the same. The MD-10 is carried on the MD-11 Type Certificate with differences training (or at least that's what the MD-10 Captain I asked told me on the Diff. Trng. part).

Just don't forget that once an F/O has passed his 100 hours in type and has ground school, he can technically fly either the DC-9, MD-80 or the B717 without problem, it's just the Captain that has to either hold multiple Type Ratings or be trained in one or the other.

 

[FLB717]

The B717 IS a DC9 Type, trust me I have a Type in my pocket that says DC9, and I have never flown the DC9 in any form other than the B717. The B717-200, DC9-10/50 and all MD 80's are the same Type with differences training. But yes I know they seem to have nothing in common, and you would be very right on most levels. The B717, DC9-10/50 and the MD80's should be three different types, butit is strange what the FAA will and won't do.

 

[FL717]

The B717 IS a DC9 Type, trust me I have a Type in my pocket that says DC9, and I have never flown the DC9 in any form other than the B717.

Well then I believe CONGRATULATIONS are in order!! I take it that you must have taken your checkride recently, and I'm willing to bet you're still hung over. Who did your ride? Well you don't have me clogging up the 717 seniority list for you, I'm off to the 737. Enjoy being out of training!

As far as the the posters question about type ratings... I don't know what to say as well, except what is on my pilots certificate. My type rating as a B-717 Captain (as well as all Captains on the DC-9XX Series, MD-8X Series, MD-9X Series) ALL simply say DC-9 on your Pilot Certificate. You ARE required differences training to operate each one however.

In all actuality, it is no different than having a 737 Type rating that covers a 737-200 all the way thru the 737-800. Its all one type rating as well with differences training.

 

[Daddy]

Well, you guys certainly answered my original question...thanks...I guess the real question now is will having a DC-9 and 737 type get me any closer to getting an interview at AirTran?

 

[Roadblock]

You need to clean your ears.

That sounds right to my understanding.

The B717-200 is Type Certificated as a DC-9 family member, but does not have the same Type Rating. I thought that you had to have a separate Type Rating for the MD-80 as well, but I could be off on that.

This is similar to the situation with the 767-400 in DAL configuration is NOT included in the 757/767 Type Rating for the pilots, but IS included on a DAL pilot's 777 Type Rating. The difference between the two however is that on the B717-200 differences training I don't believe is acceptable for transition to a B717-200 type rating whereas a person holding a normal 777 Type Rating only needs diferences training to be able to add the DAL 764 to their rating. I specify DAL since COA put a 757/767-style cockpit in their aircraft instead of the 777-style 'pit DAL chose.

The DC-9 type rating covers the DC-9, MD-80 series, MD-90 and B-717 series. Type ratings are for pilots, and Type Certificate Data Sheet's are for aircraft certification.

The B-767-400 is covered under the B-767 type rating. The B-757 and B-767 are 2 seperate type ratings but issued together due to the similaties in the aircraft. The B-767-400 is in no way connected to the B-777 type rating. There are not 2 different configurations of the B-767-400, for DAL and COA, only one. Delta choose to make the -400 a different pilot category for payrate reasons. As far as what training at an airline is required to move from one aircraft to another does not depend on what type rating it falls under or what it is similiar to, but rather the training sylabus must be approved by the FAA. So therefore it can be differerent at each and every airline.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

...,and I'm willing to bet you're still hung over.

I know that he is!

 

[FLB717]

FL717,
Thank you it is a wonderful thing.


FBC
Takes one to know one....hows YOUR liver?