What is the best aviation watch (Zulu time)?

[cezzna]

With cell phones slaved to the GPS time, everytime you turn it on who needs a watch? In our department, less than 50% of the pilots even wear a watch anymore. If I had to wear one it would be one of those new Casio slaved to the atomic time models. If you have a cellphone, you don't need a watch. If you have both, think of your watch as being the turn/slip instrument. Cellphone battery runs out, you're partial panel now.

 

[hiflyer731]

Check out the Suunto line. They are big in the marine world. I have the Vector i think it is. It has altimeter, baromoter, thermometer, compass, stopwatch, and i think i finally figured out how to tell time. The one i have doesn't have dual times, but i know some versions do.

 

[GVFlyer]

I see that you aren't any better at finance than you are at deciphering indirect commumication[sic].

OK, first off $2500 today isn't worth anywhere near $2500, 20 years ago. If you use the Bureau of Labor statistics' Consumer Price Index, you'll find that it's worth about $1359, so right off the bat you've lost $1141. Now, having your money tied up in a wach[sic ] has a cost. It used to be that oppotunity [sic] cost was one of those things they taught in the first week of freshman economics, don't they do that any more? If you had invested that $2400 in a mutual fund which showed an average return of 8% PA, the value of the mutual fund now would be $12,317, so without mixing in your loss due to inflation, it cost you $9,817 to wear that watch on your wrist. (even at 5% interest, your cost is still about $4200) So yeah, it cost you a fair amount of money to own jewlery[sic

Thanks for your concern for my financial well-being and the economics refresher. Yes, I understand about inflation, the time value of money and the concept of economic opportunity loss. I think, perhaps, you need to recall the idea of marginal utility and Adam Smith’s “paradox of water and diamonds”.

In spite of my financial ineptitude, I’ve managed to build a seven figure brokerage account, a mid six figure 401K, maintain a vacation home on Hilton Head Island, acquire the benefits of two defined benefit pension plans and am working a couple of 1031 exchanges. Can you imagine what I might have accomplished had I known what I was doing?

Even if you intentionally placed yourself in a situation where accurate time was critical; say you're sailing around the world, and making it a point of pride to navigate solely by astronomic means, not using GPS, or even using the time capabilities of a GPS receiver, and even eschewing using a broadcast time standard, you would still be far better off by taking three $50 quartz watches and a supply of batteries than a $4500 chonometer[sic, as the time from the quartz watches would be much more accurate, and the redundancy would provide much more reliability. (3 watches would provide cross checking with a tie-breaker when one started to lose time)

You realize, of course, the absurdity of your suggestion, right? Additionally, not every thing I fly has a reliable panel clock, so while wearing a wristwatch might be practical, wearing three is not.

Let's be honest, you weart[sic] an expensive piece of jewelry because you like to wear an expensive piece of jewelry. So you like expensive jewelry, nothing wrong with that, I suppose. When you start trying to rationalize it as a necessity, you fail, and you make yourself look silly in the process.

While I might like expensive jewelry, I don’t know how you consider stainless steel professional watches such as the Omega SeaMaster GMT and Rolex GMT Master as such. They’re tools. One’s a dive watch, the other a pilot’s watch.


The Rolex GMT was developed for PanAm's Juan Trippe by Rolex working in conjunction with PanAm Captain Frederick Libby (a decorated World War II veteran and one of the airlines most respected navigators) for use by PanAm cockpit crews. Initially they were free issue to the crews. So the watch has a long history with pilots.

I buy watches with discretionary income, in some cases their appreciation in value has made it relatively inexpensive to upgrade. In all cases I’ve enjoyed their ownership. My Omega Flightmaster is worth over 1000% more than I paid for it. And the watches are reliable, what initially provided me the impetus to buy my first Rolex was that I had a Seiko quit on me while I was logging combat time.


Being designed for our line of work, they are convenient and easy to use. For instance, the Quickset feature that allows me to quickly change just the hour hand to a new time zone without affecting the time or the minute/second/GMT hands is something I use daily.



Using your line of reasoning I should never buy a Porsche, a BMW or a Mercedes, because a used Chevy will do. My 5,500 square foot home is certainly overkill when a trailer would give me shelter. What good is money if you can’t buy anything with it?



GV

 

[A Squared]

Using your line of reasoning I should never buy a Porsche, a BMW or a Mercedes, because a used Chevy will do. My 5,500 square foot home is certainly overkill when a trailer would give me shelter. What good is money if you can’t buy anything with it?

First, spare us the tiresome bragging about the size of your home, bank account and other symbols of wealth. It's shallow and tacky by any measure, and doesn't impress me in the least. (although it does fit well with your *need* to wear a multi-thousand dollar watch.)

Now, go back and read my posts. I never said you shouldn't have a rolex, if that's what strokes you ego. In fact I explicitly stated that you *should* own one, if you want to, and can afford it.

Here, I'll help you out, as you obviously missed it in your reading:

"It makes you feel good for whatever reason. Fine, I'm cool with that. It's your money, and presumably you're not starving your kids to buy the watch."

Nor would I presume to tell you the you shouldn't have a Porsche, or Bimmer, or some other automotive display of wealth. That's fine. I wouldn't mind a Porsche myself. For that matter, I wouldn't mind a Swiss watch either. I'm not against them, I just don't want one badly enough to spend that kind of money on a watch or a car. If you do, knock yourself out. However, don't try to justify it as a necessity.

 

[Mercury]

Wow, what a discussion.......I cant remember who said it (not gonna re-read this whole thread) but, To each his own. Whether its German sportscars, Swiss watches, fancy Italian shotguns or the latest greatest flat screen tv who gives a rats a$$. If it makes you happy and you can afford it then by all means have at it!!!!!! I know grown men who are still too cheap to own a cell phone but will drop $1k at a time on pieces for a train set......Whatever makes ya happy!

 

[GVFlyer]

Wow, what a discussion.......I cant remember who said it (not gonna re-read this whole thread) but, To each his own. Whether its German sportscars, Swiss watches, fancy Italian shotguns or the latest greatest flat screen tv who gives a rats a$$. If it makes you happy and you can afford it then by all means have at it!!!!!! I know grown men who are still too cheap to own a cell phone but will drop $1k at a time on pieces for a train set......Whatever makes ya happy!

Thanks, Mercury. You get it.

I have established a sufficient estate to endow my children, I tithe, make charitable contributions and I have it on pretty good authority that I can't take the rest with me, so I think it's probably okay to buy things and do things that improve quality of life for me and my family.


GV



Happy Holidays!

 

[A Squared]

Thanks, Mercury. You get it.

Yep, he get's it, the only one not getting it is you, who apparently still thinks I said somthing contradictory to what Mercury just wrote. If you had read for comprehension, you would have noticed that I never said you *shouln't* have a rolex (go back and look, it's not there) what I've said is that it's inane to attempt to justify it as a necessity, as you have repeatedly attempted to do. Not sure how much more clearly I can state the point you keep missing.

 

[JimNtexas]

I started to tease GVFlyer about how he spends his discretionary income, then I realized that I spend my discretionary income on airplanes.

That makes him a financial genius compared to me, so nevermind.

 

[GVFlyer]

First, spare us the tiresome bragging about the size of your home, bank account and other symbols of wealth. It's shallow and tacky by any measure, and doesn't impress me in the least. (although it does fit well with your *need* to wear a multi-thousand dollar watch.) ...Nor would I presume to tell you the you shouldn't have a Porsche, or Bimmer, or some other automotive display of wealth.

You don't get it. It's the utility of the item that gives it value to me - it's not posessing something, it's using it.

I like operating fast airplanes, fast boats, fast motorcycles and fast cars (although some might take exception to the car statement, I've gone from a 911, to a M3, to a Honda S2000). I like using precision made items whether it's Swiss timepieces, Nikon cameras, Leica binoculars or Perazzi shotguns. I appreciate their craftmanship and how well they function at the task they were designed to perform.

I think hobbies are restorative, so I engage them as directly as I do work.

The only exception to this general philosophy was in the purchase of my primary residence, it's larger than I need. I have daughters, so I bought a house with five bathrooms (which at times seems to be inadequate). I'm sure that anyone else with daughters understands.



GV

 

[aucfi]

Ive worn a Citizen Skyhawk on my wrist for the past 6 years and have never had to change the battery. It has taken a beating and still looks and works great. I keep "UTC" in the window and can easily see what the Zulu time is. When this watch dies (if ever) I will replace it with another because it has been such a good one.

 

[Rogue5]

If you want to go by the professional opinion, go for the Omega Speedmaster Professional. Its the only watch approved by NASA for use by astronauts and was issued to the Apollo pilots for expeditions to the moon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Speedmaster_Professional

When the step-by-step procedures of the Project Gemini space-walks were first mapped out, NASA realized that they did not have an approved wristwatch for space travel. The normal procedure of soliciting bids for the design, manufacture and testing of special “Space Proof” wristwatches was a time consuming process. To save time, NASA sent two systems engineers into downtown Houston “incognito” to purchase several reputable “off-the-shelf” chronographs to be tested for possible use in space. A manual-winding watch was preferred to an automatic watch, as it was assumed that zero-gravity conditions would render the self-winding mechanism ineffective.

Five different brands of chronographs were purchased and returned to NASA for testing. The Speedmaster passed NASA's numerous tests, which included exposure to extreme temperatures, vacuum, intense humidity, corrosion, shock, acceleration, pressure, vibration and noise, whereas the Rolex, Breitling, Bulova, Longines and TAG Heuer, notably, all failed.

Company site:

http://www.omegawatches.com/index.php?id=132

 

[GVFlyer]

This is a pretty interesting link that shows that while the Rolex GMT Master didn't make it to the moon, it made it into space. It mentions the Omega Speedmaster.

http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/moonmovement.html

GV

 

[WestHouston]

it's big

Well for Christmas my wife got me the Seiko duo-display. I'm sure i'll get comments about how big and gaudy it is but I really like it. The E6B is large enough and in contrasting colors so it's not impossible to use. I doubt I'll ever use the slide rule in the cockpit but I have used it several times just to do large multiplication and division. It's kind of like having a little calculator everywhere you go, but more stylish. It runs off a battery so it should keep good time. It has 26 time zones on it including GMT which is where I keep it. It also has a stopwatch and an alarm. It retails for about $525 but you can get it for half that on eBay brand new. It is big though, and it weighs a ton, but it is comfortable...

 

[HA25]

I think the old classic Rolex GMT Master is nice... I'm more of a AP and Patek guy, but this is one Rolex I like.. it was apparently originally made to give to Pan Am 747 pilots.. those were the days!

 

[Swass]

You don't get it. It's the utility of the item that gives it value to me - it's not posessing something, it's using it.

I like operating fast airplanes, fast boats, fast motorcycles and fast cars (although some might take exception to the car statement, I've gone from a 911, to a M3, to a Honda S2000). I like using precision made items whether it's Swiss timepieces, Nikon cameras, Leica binoculars or Perazzi shotguns. I appreciate their craftmanship and how well they function at the task they were designed to perform.

I think hobbies are restorative, so I engage them as directly as I do work.

The only exception to this general philosophy was in the purchase of my primary residence, it's larger than I need. I have daughters, so I bought a house with five bathrooms (which at times seems to be inadequate). I'm sure that anyone else with daughters understands.



GV

You would think a guy that flies 6's would like the utility and nostalgia that automatic chronograph's bring to the table. I guess I'm like you, I like nice pieces of equipment (flying or otherwise).

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The story goes that NASA spent over a million dollars designing and engineering a writing device that would work in space....... The Russians used a pencil.

My Honda gets me to work just as well as a BMW.

My Casio has never made me late to work and puts me right at the MAP.

It is very intresting how, in todays society we will adamently argue our wants as needs.

A Squared.... good work.....

 

[SeaSpray]

You don't get it. It's the utility of the item that gives it value to me - it's not posessing something, it's using it.

I like operating fast airplanes, fast boats, fast motorcycles and fast cars (although some might take exception to the car statement, I've gone from a 911, to a M3, to a Honda S2000). I like using precision made items whether it's Swiss timepieces, Nikon cameras, Leica binoculars or Perazzi shotguns. I appreciate their craftmanship and how well they function at the task they were designed to perform.


GV

Well said, GVFlyer!

Although I shoot a Krieghoff, I wear a Rolex GMT Master. Forget about A Squared, he'll never get it. He's obviously a communist who doesn't believe in the Capitalist Free Market System that allows for our way of life (along with me, of course, serving out here on the Eastern Frontier).


SS

 

[HA25]

Well said, GVFlyer!

Although I shoot a Krieghoff, I wear a Rolex GMT Master. Forget about A Squared, he'll never get it. He's obviously a communist who doesn't believe in the Capitalist Free Market System that allows for our way of life (along with me, of course, serving out here on the Eastern Frontier).


SS

just to make a clarificaiton.. communist has many meanings.. the true meaning is in fact anti-free market, however the real meaning as expemplified by China is that it's more of a cultural than an economic system. Which is to say, free markets rain in China, and more Rolex are sold there than the rest of the world, but you still can attened church freely, and anything traditional or conservative in cultural terms is still anathoma.

 

[SkyGirl]

The story goes that NASA spent over a million dollars designing and engineering a writing device that would work in space....... The Russians used a pencil.

My Honda gets me to work just as well as a BMW.

My Casio has never made me late to work and puts me right at the MAP.

It is very intresting how, in todays society we will adamently argue our wants as needs.

A Squared.... good work.....

I don't see where GVFlyer is arguing his wants as needs, he pretty clearly details why he wants certain things.

Here's an academic exercise for you, Rez. He has his progeny and personal future covered with a seven figure bank account, gives to the church and charity, and owns a couple of homes. Where do you think he should spend his discretionary income?


_SkyGirl_

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't see where GVFlyer is arguing his wants as needs, he pretty clearly details why he wants certain things.

Here's an academic exercise for you, Rez. He has his progeny and personal future covered with a seven figure bank account, gives to the church and charity, and owns a couple of homes. Where do you think he should spend his discretionary income?


_SkyGirl_

That is not the point.... never was. A Squared did a fantastic job, but yet many want not stick to the issue. NASA never needed a million dollar pen when pencils work fine...

One doesn't need to buy a $4500 watch to fly jets. $50 watches do just fine.

One doesn't need a Mercedes. A Honda does just fine.

If one wants a Benz then go for it... but don't try and say it is necessary... GV flyer and Swass tried to tell us that luxury watches were a requirement....

If you like luxury items cause they make you feel good then go for it! I do at times... but I don't try and convince people that I need a BMW.