What is takes to be an airline CEO?

[PhatAJ2008]

I frequent this board, not because I work for an airline but because I enjoy learning about the industry. I am about to graduate college with a degree in management pretty soon. From what I've read, there is no one that has really mastered the role of an airline CEO. What qualifications do most of them have an is it feasable to try and work to the top?
Not that I think I could change the industry, but just from what I've read, I think I could do better than half these guys..

I'm sure some of you are going to have a hayday with some responses, but I really am curious as to what it takes...

 

[RollinOnMy22sYo]

There's a difference between managing and leading.

All airlines have management.

Very few have leaders.

 

[brnstrmr]

sure kid it's easy. first get accepted to the harvard business school, graduate at or near the top of your class, get hired by a top tier management consulting firm, work hard making great contacts, hire in at the airline where you golf with some directors of said airline and you're on your way. good luck

 

[swaforme]

In many cases I would say they start at the bottom and work there way up. At least that is the case at SWA. They like to keep it internal. That said, many other airlines have hired from the outside for top management. Stephen Wolf would be a good example he has led (for lack of a better word) a few airlines. Although every time he takes a job it has been to steer said airline to a merger. Flying Tiger, USAir. I think he may have been involved at republic as well.

 

[Itsallsogood]

Have a constant BAC of 1.0 or greater or sleep your way to the top like Ms. EE is doing.

 

[wrgcareer]

Do you really think half of them are trying to run an airline? If it is your goal to become a blood-sucking weasel who perfects the art of running away with millions while stabbing the labor groups in the back, then you've found your new profession. If you have a conscience, I would suggest something else.

 

[PCL_128]

but I really am curious as to what it takes...

A complete lack of talent, ethics, and morality.

 

[MQAAord]

Read a bio of C.R. Smith.

 

[PhatAJ2008]

So they really can't ANYONE who cares about the company....? I find it hard to believe. Would that change the industry?

 

[G4G5]

The problem is simple. This industry does not attract the quality talent. The odds of a Harvard or Warton MBA accepting the job of an airline CEO are slim and none. The salaries don't compare to what you could make at GE or IBM. The margins are no where near at profitable as they are at Altria or Pfizer. The only place with worse unions are GE and Ford.

Hence the problem, no one with a brian (someone who spends the time going to a legitimate MBA program) would ever become an airline CEO. That is the sole reason why this shape it's in. Can you imagine what this industry would look like if the truly great CEO's of the world were interested in it.

No instead what you have is a bunch of guys who couldn't get into their first, second or third choice of MBA programs. Who could get on at a descent company, and now find that through whatever coin of fate, they are in charge of an airline.

 

[Lear70]

So they really can't ANYONE who cares about the company....? I find it hard to believe. Would that change the industry?

Unlikely.

You'll find that people who are interested in aviation because they truly love it don't ever go very far in the management end. They get pilot's licenses, buy a small airplane to play in, and work in another industry.

The American Aviation Industry is in the last dying spiral. It will never again be what it once was, and we will probably see its demise in our own lifetimes. We simply have too many things working against us, and the large root of the problem is CEO's who are all about the money and have no true interest in the industry.

If you really want that kind of life, then like one of the above posters said, it's not an easy gig to get. Going to a top 5 school to get your MBA, making the contacts that will get you in the door, including good political contacts for later use, then manage them very, very carefully at the opportune times.

It's an art more than science, and is so lucrative that it should be illegal, considering that the huge payouts are usually borne on the back of labor.

 

[Draginass]

Like most US robber baron executives, you must be able to lie convincingly. You must make sure that you only stay at the airline for a short while and at the same time get your buddies on the BOD to give you a sweetheart pay/benefits package, only a small part of which is actually revealed. So after 3 or less years of screwing up, you can leave with a minimum of 10 million dollars (again, only the part that's revealed), then move on to your next victim.

 

[Deuce130]

You should really ask that question on www.rapeandpillageforprofit.com/forums rather than this board. Running an airline and being an airline pilot have absolutely zero in common. I'd wish you luck, but I don't think I should. Cute, little, baby enemies grow up to be rat-bas+ard adult enemies.

 

[AA717driver]

The airlines have had some great CEO's. Bethune, Crandall, Kelleher.

They were great at building the airlines but things were tough when the employees wanted an increasingly larger piece of the pie.

Plus, why would you want to bash your head against the wall having to plan several billion dollars of aircraft acquisitions for 5-15 years down the line when you don't know what the market will be like next week?

It's much easier to go to work for a pharmaceutical company where you can buy a few politicians and promise a high six-figure job-for-life to some FDA bureaucrats and live on easy street after the next Prozac gets approved (despite lawsuit-inducing "issues").

Airlines are too much work. There aren't many airline CEO's with 10,000 sq. ft. houses at ASE...TC

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Executive management is no different than being a Congressman or Senator. You have to put yourself first, always.
Somewhat seriously, what I find is a lack of is genuine desire to run a good business and treat their fellow human being as they would want to be treated (i.e., the golden rule which we're all guilty of breaking in various degrees). I have seen this get progressively worse over the years.
Again, not much different than a politician. Few are in it for the "cause".

 

[SoCentralRain]

but I really am curious as to what it takes...

Well, the stereotypical airline CEOs do have a few things in common. The biggest of which is an enormous ego. I mean egos so big they wouldn't fit inside the Hindenburg's hangar.

I suggest reading the book Hard Landing by Tom Petzinger. In it, he details all of the biggies from throughout U.S. airline history. Trippe from Pan Am, Howard Hughes and Carl Ichan with TWA, C.R. Smith and Crandall at American, Bill Patterson, Dick Ferris and Steven Wolf with United, Frank Borman with Eastern, Lorenzo and Six at Continental, Burr with People Express and last, but certainly not least, Herb Kelleher with Southwest.

Unfortunately, the book was published about 10 years ago and is sorely due for a "part 2." He'd probably throw in the "upstarts" like David Neeleman, Richard Branson and (ugh) Jonathan Ornstein.

The book describes in detail the personalities and management styles of each. Fascinating. Too bad each of us worker bees wind up getting stung.

SCR

 

[NuGuy]

Unlikely.
The American Aviation Industry is in the last dying spiral. It will never again be what it once was, and we will probably see its demise in our own lifetimes.

Heyas Lear,

Actually, I think you can lump most other industries in there, as well.

Across the board, there is no long term planning, and manufacturing talent is evaporating. As the large equity firms have taken over, they have replaced the individual investor as the principal ownership in this country.

Their desire is not long term. They don't make money by holding onto the stock and seeking growth and prosperity. Their goals are strictly short term, as speculation and stock churning are their profit centers.

This fast-buck approach is really going to turn around and bite us in the tail one day.

Nu

 

[capt. megadeth]

Not that I think I could change the industry, but just from what I've read, I think I could do better than half these guys..

I'm sure some of you are going to have a hayday with some responses, but I really am curious as to what it takes...

You could be a blind monkey and do better than 99% of these scum sucking pigs.

No conscience is what it takes.

 

[capt. megadeth]

sure kid it's easy. first get accepted to the harvard business school, graduate at or near the top of your class, get hired by a top tier management consulting firm, work hard making great contacts, hire in at the airline where you golf with some directors of said airline and you're on your way. good luck

I wonder at what point they turn into heartless, greedy f***ing bastards. I mean, they all can't possibly be born that way.....can they?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Frank Lorenzo should be popping his head in here fairly soon. Come on, Frankie, tell us what it's all about.

 

[altscap]

To learn what NOT to do, do some research on Carl Ichan, Frank Lorenzo, and Jonathan Orenstein. you might look at Don Cardy as well (former AA before the flight attendents got him fired).

To expand your understanding of what is necessary in the business of aviation, or any inudstry, you really should read "From Worst to First: The Turnaround of Continental Airlines" by Gordan Bethune who is one of the very few CEO's the labor group has any respect for. he knows how to take care of his employees. Also, Lee Iacoca, former head of Ford Motor recently wrote a book titled (I think) "Where Have All the Leaders Gone?", talking about his 9 qualities a CEO should possess.

The problem is, the corporate leadership in this country doesn't have any fresh blood or new ideas. It's the same old farts bouncing around from one company to another. How often have you read an article about some bozo who used to be in the upper escelon at Pepsico being placed in the top spot at J&J (just an example). What does a food/beferage ceo know about the medical industy. NOTHING! But they all know ho wto manipulate the bottom line, and the stock price, and are excellent at Public Relations and telling investors what they want to hear, instead of telling them what's really going on.

Take jonathan orenstein for example. If middle mgmt tells him something he doesn't want to hear, he throws a temper tantrum like a 2 y.o. who isn't getting his way and finds someone else woefully unqualified to do the job, but will tel him jokes and keep a smile on his face. And he has next to no regard for his labor groups, in fact, it's well known throught the industry that he doesn't like pilots. This is why we've lost over 500 (nearly 36%) crew members this year, most of whom are FO's with less than 1 yr. seniority, and it's the same reason our reqruiting dept. is sitting on it's a$$ because everyone inthe nation knows not to come here.

One last thing, read those two books I mentioned, and do some research on Ben&Jerry's. They make money, they're profitable and their employees are happier than my collegues wil ever be.

 

[pilotyip]

ATW did an article on this 5 yrs ago. The title was "Airline Management a dying breed" The article basically said who would want to work in this business. Airlines have razor thin margins; they regulated to the ends of the earth, militant unions, and a fickle public that buys airline travel as a commodity. Who in their right mind would pick this for a career, unless for quick money or a passion for things that fly?

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, it does buy them the opportunity to come to my cockpit and shake my hand.


.

 

[CitationLover]

In many cases I would say they start at the bottom and work there way up. At least that is the case at SWA. They like to keep it internal. That said, many other airlines have hired from the outside for top management. Stephen Wolf would be a good example he has led (for lack of a better word) a few airlines. Although every time he takes a job it has been to steer said airline to a merger. Flying Tiger, USAir. I think he may have been involved at republic as well.

and united gave him a lot of money to leave, $40 million in stock i believe.

 

[Publishers]

Most people underestimate the difficulty of running an airline. Having been an executive in companies in and out of aviation, I can certainly appreciate the differences in management of an airline versus other more traditional ones. First of all, the obvious. Airlines run 24/7 which in itself brings nuances that are not that obvious. Secondly comes the variety of regulatory bodies and governmental bodies one has to deal with. Sure, the FAA is obvious as is the TSA and others, but how about the number of different bodies you work with at every airport. Another major problem is that it is an industry with heavy capital spending and where fleet planning etc are made over long periods but where the market factors and much more short term.
Most CEO types like to go where they can make a few short term moves which have a big impact and consequently the stock changes for the better and they look like winners. That is for the most part not aviation.
For those that think this is easy and they could do better, they will find that there are a tremendous amount of decisions that are made to you not by you. Then there are the other issues like the weather that impact you, dealing with long term union issues in a market that changes weekly, sudden changes in regulations or maintenance problems. It goes on and on 24/7. Other businesses have problems too but nothing I have seen like airlines.

 

[capt. megadeth]

For those that think this is easy and they could do better, they will find that there are a tremendous amount of decisions that are made to you not by you. Then there are the other issues like the weather that impact you, dealing with long term union issues in a market that changes weekly, sudden changes in regulations or maintenance problems. It goes on and on 24/7. Other businesses have problems too but nothing I have seen like airlines.

Maybe so but they sure are not going to EVER be liked when employees take 50% paycuts and they get a $40 million bonus. The guy could be a genious but the bottom line is that IT JUST LOOKS GREEDY! It's the same as people thinking pilots are overpaid. No matter what an executive does (24/7 at the office, blah blah blah), in the end.....all people will see is the HUGE salary and bonus at their expense.

 

[pilotyip]

We are back to the difference between leadership, which it seems we have little of, and management that any Harvard grad can do.

 

[Lear70]

Well, it does buy them the opportunity to come to my cockpit and shake my hand.

And a fine opportunity it is, sir.

 

[airplane wizard]

Just the burning desire to line your pockets with $$$$$. No matter what you have to do, who you have to run over, just think of your wallet and that big fat bonus check. Who cares if you tank the company...after all you're rich F**K the little guy.

 

[CKJET]

It seems everyone agrees on this. Somehow the General and SWA F/O will find a way to mess this up!!