What is so wrong about "with you"

[schoolio]

I'm not defending it, 'cause I don't do it either, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard "with you" from guys like Southwest, Cactus, Air Shuttle, Delta, and so on and so forth.

 

[MED]

Royer

 

[gkrangers]

Royer

teehee

 

[midlifeflyer]

Along the same vein...

What are everyone's thoughts about using the facility name on the initial call? ("Kansas City Center, .........." vs. "Center, .......")

Slightly different in that

(a) it's not necessarily meaningless. Yes, it will be obvious anyway if you're on the wrong frequency....eventually. Stating the name of the facility will clear up the confusion faster. There are plenty of stories floating around in which someone talks to Tower A for quite a while in the pattern at Tower B.

(b) stating the name of the facility on initial call up =is= AIM-standard.

 

[Immelman]

Its bad because it annoys people with nothing better to complain about

I don't think its so bad when you get a handoff and are initially coming on frequency... but that is just me. Same with 'checking in' or just a pause after stating your call sign when initially signing on.... all of these approaches takea bout the same amount of time on frequency.

 

[PolarTwins55]

Aren't you supposed to state whoever your calling on initial call up? Makes a lot of sense to me. I've been told by a few controllers that they won't even acknowledge you if you don't adress them.

The with you thing has been blown way out of poroportion. Give it a rest. Untangle your panties, and find something new to bitch about.

 

[FN FAL]

Three pilot crew: "...with them..."

Two pilot crew: "...with him (her)..."

One pilot crew: "Minny Center...Red Dawg 2389. Checking in with the one eyed willy in manual reversion with request!"

 

[pilotmiketx]

I'm not defending it, 'cause I don't do it either, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard "with you" from guys like Southwest, Cactus, Air Shuttle, Delta, and so on and so forth.

Same guys who say "fishfinder" no doubt. Just 'cuz some old turd has four stripes and a bunch of cartoon airplane and alpa stickers all over his jepp case does it doesn't mean it's right.

BTW, I say "Center" without the center name only when I forget who they handed me off to...

 

[BushwickBill]

Im not saying its wrong or right. I have been scolded for saying "with you" by senior flight instructors and FAA checkairmen. Then when I finally got out of the habbit I started flying right seat in the 525. Then I was scolded for saying "level 320" and was specifically told to say "with you" again.

So I'm pretty confused at the moment about the whole thing. Keep in mind the guys flying the 525 seem to be very competent much more so than anyone else I have flown with. They also are very correct about saying stuff like "PD one zero thats ten thousand". We also say Center but not which one and say Norcal without saying approach. No controller seems to care very much.

 

[MTpilot]

Alright. I will never say with you again.

Also, if a controller or another pilot tries to make conversation or god forbid a humorous comment, they will recieve only cold silence in return.

Your precious frequency will be available for your short unfeeling transmissions.

 

[GravityHater]

withyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyou

 

[lowslow]

I'm going to say it when I have even the slightest hint that one of you guys are on, and "with me" also!

 

[GravityHater]

I now have karmic proof that wit'you is seriously bad. That just crashed my browser!

 

[Dubya]

You forgot.."with your wife at 6000"

Which flight school?
My money is on SIU. Although it was probably "with y'all".

W

"Hello."
"How dee do?"
"I have a great mortgage rate for you!"
"In the air"
"Sitting down"
"In an airplane"
"Hi there big boy"
"Grow your penis today"
"FYI"
"Laser Cartridge Refills

and that all time classic

"uhhhh"

which, of course, is what "with you" is really the equivalent of. Filler when you can't think of anything relevant to say. Nothing really "wrong" with it, but an unnecessary crutch. The only time I really got huffy about it was when I saw it on a flight school's handout of recommended communication technique.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Im not saying its wrong or right. I have been scolded for saying "with you" by senior flight instructors and FAA checkairmen. Then when I finally got out of the habbit I started flying right seat in the 525. Then I was scolded for saying "level 320" and was specifically told to say "with you" again.

So I'm pretty confused at the moment about the whole thing. Keep in mind the guys flying the 525 seem to be very competent much more so than anyone else I have flown with. They also are very correct about saying stuff like "PD one zero thats ten thousand". We also say Center but not which one and say Norcal without saying approach. No controller seems to care very much.

That right there is pretty f***ed up. I don't blame you for being confused. While I know I am right, and many others here obviously agree with me, I'm pretty sure the Captain, Chief Pilot, or Check Airman trump the message board. When you're the captain, do it the right way. Until then, saying "with you" isn't going to crash the plane.

 

[BushwickBill]

That right there is pretty f***ed up. I don't blame you for being confused. While I know I am right, and many others here obviously agree with me, I'm pretty sure the Captain, Chief Pilot, or Check Airman trump the message board. When you're the captain, do it the right way. Until then, saying "with you" isn't going to crash the plane.

Reality always seems to trump the message board. I feel better about being confused though, thanks.

 

[A Squared]

Then I was scolded for saying "level 320" and was specifically told to say "with you" again.

Did you ask them why they objected to you saying "level 320" when you are doing it *exactly* the way the AIM recommends you make your initial call?

AIM 5-3-1 b2

2. The following phraseology should be utilized by pilots for establishing contact with the designated facility:​

(a) When operating in a radar environment: On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's assigned altitude preceded by the words "level," or "climbing to," or "descending to," as appropriate; and the aircraft's present vacating altitude, if applicable.
EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).​

 

[pilotmiketx]

My CP doesn't like "Level" either. I think that's BS. AIM or not, seems to be a good idea to let ATC know you're not still climbing or descending in case there was a screw up with the altitude. Although it might be a little redundant since if you're not level you would be reporting your present altitude and then altitude climbing or descending to.

 

[minitour]

I typically leave off the "level" part.

If I'm climbing/descending, I'll let them know.

"Approach, good afternoon, cessna 1234X 8 thousand 4 hundred descending 4 thousand Charlie"

not 8 point 4 for 4...which looks like 8.444 in my mind...

But if I'm level at 5,000 I'll just say "Approach, Cessna 1234X 5,000"

Seems to be alright...might start with the "level" again...didn't reailze that was correct even if not in the "Flight level's". Good info...thanks!

-mini

 

[gkrangers]

I typically leave off the "level" part.

If I'm climbing/descending, I'll let them know.

"Approach, good afternoon, cessna 1234X 8 thousand 4 hundred descending 4 thousand Charlie"

not 8 point 4 for 4...which looks like 8.444 in my mind...

But if I'm level at 5,000 I'll just say "Approach, Cessna 1234X 5,000"

Seems to be alright...might start with the "level" again...didn't reailze that was correct even if not in the "Flight level's". Good info...thanks!

-mini

Exactly what I do. Seems "ok". I've yet to be reamed by ATC for phraseology.

ALTHO, I think, sometime last week I had a brainfart and said standy after they told me to standby... :idiot:

 

[minitour]

Exactly what I do. Seems "ok". I've yet to be reamed by ATC for phraseology.

ALTHO, I think, sometime last week I had a brainfart and said standy after they told me to standby... :idiot:

eheh...can't say I haven't had a brainfart recently...said "ident" to "Cessna 123 Ident"....yeah...that was dumb. Oh well...it happens, right?

-mini

 

[gkrangers]

eheh...can't say I haven't had a brainfart recently...said "ident" to "Cessna 123 Ident"....yeah...that was dumb. Oh well...it happens, right?

-mini

I've done that...its not as bad as standby...cuz they actually did tell us to do something....tho I guess its still dumb.

I should have my license revoked :0

 

[minitour]

I should have my license revoked :0

....nevermind...I won't say it.

I'll give you a clue though...it had something to do with UnAnswered, your line above and it was really funny

-mini

 

[pilotmiketx]

The other day I said "Center, 1234, request." Twice. And it wasn't even busy. Broke my own rule. Still shaking my head at that one. Must've been more tired than I thought.

 

[moonlight]

At my first shot as Official Gear Handle Supervisor, I checked in to LAS departure with the infamous "with you" phraseology. My astute captain quickly pointed out the error of my ways. Not 10 seconds after he was done. I heard a SWA pilot check in with the same phrase. All I could think of was to key up and say, "Excuse me, my captain said that we aren't checking in with anybody". Didn't do it though, too busy clapping my hands so the captain knew I wasn't touching anything.

 

[profile]

The problem with the word "level" is that everywhere outside the U.S. the term is a short form of "flight level", so saying "level 8,000" is a very odd confusion of terms. Better to substitute "maintaining". Similarly, the term "with you" is not so much a problem with English speaking controllers, but can really muck up the works with those that have marginal command of the language (i.e., just what is listed in PANS-OPs and nothing else).

 

[empenage]

Well there is 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

 

[SuperFLUF]

Well there is 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

I'm WITH YOU on that!

 

[macfly]

I'm WITH YOU on that!

rofl Coffee spew!

 

[pilotmiketx]

If you want to waste some time, go read the Frax boards. You'll feel like needing a shower when you're done.