What is FLOPS New Payscale?

[BeenThereDoneIt]

All the rant about the new contrat left some of us confused. What does your new contract pay for the first 4 years for FO and PIC? Gracious!

 

[wacoflyr]

It is truly amazing. One year on what I consider to be a pretty good job has turned what may well have been a decent primate into something that can hardly be recognized. Or, maybe I have it wrong. Maybe he was never a self respecting human. Whatever. Now, thanks to the power of the internet, our troll has decided to venture beyond his own former company, and attack pilots at companies that he has never even worked for. I am embarrased for him. On behalf of our troll, I apologize to the good pilots of Flight Options, and I trust you to see him for the little figure with the pointy red hat that he truly is. Kinda funny, really.
Oops! Those are gnomes, aren't they? Whatever.

 

[dime line]

All the rant about the new contrat left some of us confused. What does your new contract pay for the first 4 years for FO and PIC? Gracious!

Do you REALLY want to know, cause it sucks. But we all have opened our eyes to our company, the industry and the world. Oh..... and the small fact that we lost 700 pilots in the last 4 years. But we live to fight another day, and its in writing. So again do you REALLY need to know?

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Oh, I'd certainly like to know. There was so much back and forth before the vote, we don't know WHAT to believe.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Go apply at Flight Options. And when you do, ask them then.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

I applied with them before but refused the interview because of all the in-fighting.

 

[ProFracPilot]

...but refused the interview...

Then the specifics of our pay scale is of no real use to you. Suffice it to say it did not reach parity with NJ.

Is that sufficient troll fodder for you?

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

ROFLMAO! Are you the bottom feeder?

 

[ProFracPilot]

ROFLMAO! Are you the bottom feeder?

As predictable as the sun rising in the east.

I knew better - Waco has warned most of us at least once. Now, where's that "ignore" button...

Buh bye.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Slow learner....low pay. Here's a bullet.

 

[HazMat]

I too apologize for the troll. I cant believe he ever worked for us. Makes me want to punch the guy who hired him in the face

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

I too apologize for the troll. I cant believe he ever worked for us. Makes me want to punch the guy who hired him in the face

Punch him. Hell.....I was lied to about Profit-Sharing. Can you punch him for me as well?

 

[hangarrat]

I applied with them before but refused the interview because of all the in-fighting.

why god, why could he have not gone to that interview? WHY WHY WHY

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Because he saw the writing on the wall....just like he saw the upgrades at Avantiar would soon be 3-4 years. Just like he sees that there is no way in hell that you will buy 50 more planes in 3 years. That would be a plane every 5 weeks. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[ProFracPilot]

why god, why could he have not gone to that interview? WHY WHY WHY

I can't answer that question. I know that I, for one, am glad she decided not to show :laugh:

 

[Praetorian]

I think what's important to know is that it's an average 38.9% raise over the life of the five year contract, assuming the company exercises their options for years 4 and 5. And if they don't we'll be back at the table in 2.5 years. This is a remarkable achievement, for any contract, let alone a first contract in this economy.

What's also important to know is that we don't have any year one-four year pilots flying at Flops. So those numbers would be irrelevant if they were posted.

 

[skyismyoffice]

Also important to know that there are 200+ pilots with recall rights so there will be no new hires in the foreseeable future. So, why does the payscale matter 2 U?

 

[hangarrat]

Also important to know that there are 200+ pilots with recall rights so there will be no new hires in the foreseeable future. So, why does the payscale matter 2 U?

The OP has been permanantly banned from FI. The MODs rule!

 

[netjetwife]

... But we live to fight another day, and its in writing. ...

Kudos to all of the Flight Options pilots and their families for hanging in there and getting a foundation you can build on in the future. Having legally recognized rules and a voice in your career will pay dividends which can't always be counted in actual dollars but are valuable gains nonetheless. Congratulations to you all! NJW

 

[wacoflyr]

NJW, I don't always agree with you, but it is good to have your voice in the argument. Welcome back.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks Waco... Even when I'm away doing family activities and volunteering at my daughter's school, I try to keep up with current events within the industry. I knew the day of the vote that it had passed. My congratulations are admittedly belated ...:blush: but my support is always there...even when I'm not posting.

As the economy improves, my thoughts turn frequently to all of the furloughed frac pilots and their families. Hopefully every bit of good news brings you a day closer to being recalled. Best wishes, NJW

 

[Alaska82]

small cabin

"current pilots will get the higher pay old plus 10% or new which ever is greater
furloughed recalled after January 1, 2011 higher of your old pay or new pay but no 10% increase.
8&7 First officer
OLD New
1 33996 48000 41.2%
2 36000 49680 38.0%
3 39996 51418 28.56%
4 45996 51418 28.56%
5 51996 55081 15.7%
6 54396 57008 4.8%
7 56796 59004 3.89%
8 63156 61069 negative
9 66372 63206 negative
10 69852 65419 negative
11 73500 67708 negative
12 74700 70078 negative
13 75900 72531 negative
14 77100 75069 negative
15 78300 77697 negative

7&7
OLD NEW
33996 45000 32.37%
36000 46575 29.38%
39996 48205 20.52%
45996 49892 8.4%
51996 51638 negative
54396 53445 negative
56796 55316 negative
63156 57252 negative
66372 59256 negative
69852 61330 negative
73500 63476 negative
74700 65698 negative
75900 67998 negative
77100 70378 negative
78300 72841 negative

16+2 if you work 16
OLD NEW
33996 48729 43.34%
36000 50434 40.01%
39996 52200 30.51%
45996 54027 17.46%
51996 55918 7.54%
54396 57875 6.4%
56796 59900 5.47%
63156 61997 negative
66372 64167 negative
69852 66413 negative
73500 68737 negative
74700 71143 negative
75900 73633 negative
77100 76210 negative
78300 78877 0.74%

Small Cabin
Captains
8&7

Old NEW
51996 58824 13.13%
54264 60882 12.2%
56796 63013 10.94%
63156 65219 3.27%
66372 67501 1.7%
69852 69864 0.02%
73500 72309 negative
74700 74840 0.19%
75900 77459 2.06%
77100 80171 3.98%
78300 82977 5.97%
80700 85881 6.42%
83100 88887 6.94%
85500 91998 7.6%
87900 95218 8.32%

7&7

OLD NEW
51996 55147 6.06%
54264 57077 5.19%
56796 59075 4.01%
63156 61143 negative
66372 63283 negative
69852 65497 negative
73500 67790 negative
74700 70163 negative
75900 72618 negative
77100 75160 negative
78300 77791 negative
80700 80513 negative
83100 86248 3.78%
85500 89266 4.41%
87900 92391 5.11%

16+2 if you work 16
OLD NEW
51996 59717 14.85%
54264 61807 13.9%
56796 63971 12.63%
63156 66210 4.84%
66372 68527 3.25%
69852 70926 1.54%
73500 73408 negative
74700 75977 1.71%
75900 78637 3.61%
77100 81389 5.56%
78300 84237 7.58%
80700 87186 8.04%
83100 90237 8.59%
85500 96664 9.97% "

 

[ProFracPilot]

You're really late to the game, Alaska. The troll who started the thread isn't going to see this, as he's been banned from FI.

 

[Praetorian]

The rest of the story!

Wow, looks like we got hosed. Not!



In the interest full disclosure, lets look at a few things “Alaska’s” numbers don’t fully articulate.

· We currently have about 320 pilots on the property 30 of which are co-pilots.
· We have about 50 Capt’s who have been downgraded to F.O. status; the contract stipulates that they will nevertheless continue to be paid as Capts. This is unheard of in our industry.
· So, all those F.O. numbers you see only apply to about 30 pilots currently flying at Flops.
· Of the 290 other pilots currently flying for Flops, most have been with the company between 9 and 15 years and are being paid as Capts. So when looking at the posted pay charts these are the truly relevant numbers.
· Under the contract 10% of pilots (by fleet) will be on the 7/7 schedule in the first year of the agreement. (Tops out at 25% in the 5th year)

With this in mind you can see the logic behind the union’s strategy of putting most of the available funds into Capt’s on the 8/7 schedule who have been with the company between 9 and 15 years.

· Prior to the contract Flops had a policy in place, affectionately referred to by the pilots as “slide to poverty.” This policy essentially stipulated that pilots who upgraded “slid” to a similar pay scale on the new equipment, e.g., 6 year BeachJet Capt. moves to Hawker and is paid as a 4 year Hawker pilot because that pay scale most closely resembled his former pay. (This is no BS gang).



This was eliminated as part of the new contract. The pay raises which will result from the elimination of this policy will kick in Jan. 1, 2011, resulting in significant pay raises for pilots throughout the list. (Many pilots were paid as many as six years behind where they should have been).
· The Pay Scales “Alaska” posted don’t reflect the fact that if the company chooses to exercise it’s unilateral options to extend the contract into years 4 and 5, the pay scales will move up by 3% for each year, respectively. These numbers compound. Also he did not post he mid/large cabin numbers, which are considerably higher than the small cabin numbers he chose to post.

All of this results on an average 38.9% for each pilot at Flight Options. All of this is is in addition to the 300+ pages of contractually protected work rules, scope protections, very favorable duty/rest rules and job protections our contract contains.

 

[chainring]

Also dont forget, even though some guys dont want to add it in. We get paid both $7500 perdiem and the company pays for all of our meals with either the company credit card or you can expense them.

So basically add another 10K to all salary numbers you see here to account for the tax free 7500 you dont have to use for food and instead can pay your car payment with it.

Not everything we had hoped for but for a first contract in tough times I feel like it works for both sides. Plus the protections that are now in place because of the contract and dont have to worry about something changing in a overnight email.

Years 2&3 8&7 starting at year 10 since 95% of everyone here is at or above 10 years right now. Rounded to dollar

BJ HK CX LEG

10 80171 84101 88031 91962
11 82977 87045 91113 95181
12 85881 90092 94302 98512
13 88887 93245 97602 101960
14 91998 96508 101019 105529
15 95218 99886 104554 109222
16 98551 103382 108214 113045
17 102000 107001 112001 117002


Year 4 of contract if extended
BJ HK CX LEG

10 82576 86624 90673 94721
11 85466 89656 93846 98036
12 88458 92794 97131 101468
13 91554 96042 100531 105019
14 94758 99404 104049 108695
15 98075 102883 107691 112499
16 101507 106483 111460 116436
17 105060 110211 115361 120512


Year 5 of contract if extended
10 85054 89223 93393 97563
11 88030 92346 96662 100977
12 91111 95578 100045 104512
13 94300 98923 103546 108169
14 97601 102386 107171 111955
15 101017 105969 110922 115875
16 104552 109678 114804 119929
17 108211 113516 118822 124127

 

[dime line]

Lets not forget, it might not be the best contract......but;


Its in writing, they can't change the rules as they see fit! Thats the best part.

 

[brokeflyer]

Lets not forget, it might not be the best contract......but;


Its in writing, they can't change the rules as they see fit! Thats the best part.

yes they will. they will try to see what they can get away with. You reply is the grievance process.

Make sure you use it. Do think they would just look the other way if you just ignored part of your ops manual?

 

[dime line]

yes they will. they will try to see what they can get away with. You reply is the grievance process.

Make sure you use it. Do think they would just look the other way if you just ignored part of your ops manual?

agreed

 

[johnsonrod]

Also dont forget, even though some guys dont want to add it in. We get paid both $7500 perdiem and the company pays for all of our meals with either the company credit card or you can expense them.

So basically add another 10K to all salary numbers you see here to account for the tax free 7500 you dont have to use for food and instead can pay your car payment with it.

Not everything we had hoped for but for a first contract in tough times I feel like it works for both sides. Plus the protections that are now in place because of the contract and dont have to worry about something changing in a overnight email.

Years 2&3 8&7 starting at year 10 since 95% of everyone here is at or above 10 years right now. Rounded to dollar

BJ HK CX LEG

10 80171 84101 88031 91962
11 82977 87045 91113 95181
12 85881 90092 94302 98512
13 88887 93245 97602 101960
14 91998 96508 101019 105529
15 95218 99886 104554 109222
16 98551 103382 108214 113045
17 102000 107001 112001 117002


Year 4 of contract if extended
BJ HK CX LEG

10 82576 86624 90673 94721
11 85466 89656 93846 98036
12 88458 92794 97131 101468
13 91554 96042 100531 105019
14 94758 99404 104049 108695
15 98075 102883 107691 112499
16 101507 106483 111460 116436
17 105060 110211 115361 120512


Year 5 of contract if extended
10 85054 89223 93393 97563
11 88030 92346 96662 100977
12 91111 95578 100045 104512
13 94300 98923 103546 108169
14 97601 102386 107171 111955
15 101017 105969 110922 115875
16 104552 109678 114804 119929
17 108211 113516 118822 124127

Can we assume that the Phenom 300 will pay the same as the Beechjet or will it be closer to the Hawker pay?

 

[skyismyoffice]

Same. Light jet scale.