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We get it. It's sucked to be an Airways pilot for a long, long time. It wasn't AWA's fault. Stop trying to take out 20 years of frustration on a pilot group that had nothing to do with it. At this point it's all about emotion. Ego and pride are ruling your decision making and you guys are collectively making bad decisions. Acknowledge the SLI didn't go your way, make the best of it and move forward. Nothing USAPA is doing is helping you guys get past this. The only consistency is you guys keep suing, you keep losing and the lawyers are getting richer. Let it go.
What I want is irrelevant. I'm simply restating ALPA Merger Policy as interpreted by the arbitrator. Your interpretation of career expectations differs from the arbitrator's and the two pilot neutrals who agreed with him. Maybe you'll be chosen to be a "neutral" for the next arbitration?Oh I see you want to use a snapshot that includes what the airline managements said was going to be happening "today, tomorrow and next week."
Maybe pride is a factor on the East but for the West we have the law on our side.Good luck I hope you all get it figured out before both sides take the airline down through their own pride and unwillingness to budge.
Since you're just about the only one the competition isn't very challenging.your favorite USAPA apologist
You'll do much better in life if you learn to distinguish fact from opinion.The simple fact is that the arbitrator blew it.
Following your skewed logic, let's say Nicolau had ruled DOH (which staples 2/3 of the AWA list behind the junior active AAA pilot) and then we went irrationally ballistic like the East did. Being only 1/3 of the size of the combined pilot group our attempts to pressure Prater would've fallen on deaf ears and our attempt to get around binding arbitration by changing unions would've failed to garner enough votes. Would we then be able to state as a "fact" that the arbitrator screwed up?He created a list so egregious that an entire pilot group voted out ALPA.
Correct. Kind of screwy but that's what happened.Furloughs. I am still just flabbergasted that that the most senior, "furloughs" at UsAir never even left the property. They went from right seat on whatever to left seat on a 195, being dispatched by USAir dispatchers, under the USAir operating certificate. Yet they were furloughed :erm:.
I blame USAPA merger policy, which is flawed beyond comprehension. Picking a pilot's date of hire, and basing his/her career expectations on that single day is just AKS-- all kinda stupid.I blame ALPA merger policy, which is flawed beyond comprehension. Picking 1 day out of a pilots career, and basing his/her career expectations on that single day is just AKS--all kinda stupid.
Gee, I wonder whose fault that is?It is doubtful that anyone will touch it with a 10 foot pole the way it is now.
You'll do much better in life if you learn to distinguish fact from opinion.
Following your skewed logic, let's say Nicolau had ruled DOH (which staples 2/3 of the AWA list behind the junior active AAA pilot) and then we went irrationally ballistic like the East did. Being only 1/3 of the size of the combined pilot group our attempts to pressure Prater would've fallen on deaf ears and our attempt to get around binding arbitration by changing unions would've failed to garner enough votes. Would we then be able to state as a "fact" that the arbitrator screwed up?
I blame USAPA merger policy, which is flawed beyond comprehension. Picking a pilot's date of hire, and basing his/her career expectations on that single day is just AKS-- all kinda stupid.
Every merger is different therefore no single integration methodology is fair
Of course you blame ALPA. The East is never responsible for anything. I'll bet you think it was ALPA on that grassy knoll in Dallas back in '63 too.
Gee, I wonder whose fault that is?
They continue to cling to their lottery ticket and refuse to budge.
Then don't state your opinion as fact anymore.It was my opinion.
Actually, the history of the after effects proves something quite different -- something proven in court.The history of the after effects support it.
It is very presumptuous to imply that the AWA pilots would've attempted to get around binding arbitration. Not all pilots lack integrity as the Easties do (and apparently the handful of non-Easties who support their treacherous actions).That is my question. USAir was just like any other pilot group. Could yours have pulled it off?
Which is why merger policies exist: to protect smaller pilot groups from egregious larger groups.#1 you didn't have the numbers--it sucks to be in the minority.
Fine. Big irrelevant difference. Nicolau didn't buy it.BTW, the end position of the USAir east pilots was don DOH, it was DOH based on LOS. Big difference, IMO, between the two--especially with the USAir group.
Seriously, do you really not understand the difference between each airline's seniority and combining seniority? Lemme ask you this, something no Eastie has even tried to answer. On the day the merger was announced the bottom US Airways FO was a 1988 hire. Would you say he was junior or senior? I say he was junior. Having nobody below you employed makes you junior. The Easties make him senior to 2/3 of the AWA pilot group. So how can one pilot be both junior and senior at the same time?So then DOH for bidding schedules, vacation, travel, and just about everything else in the industry is also not fair. Why do we even have a seniority system?
You're right. That's why it isn't ALPA's merger policy to impose DOH. Every merger is difference therefore no one integration policy is fair.The difference is that DOH is not something which can be subjective--like any other methodology which can be dreamed up.
That's right, if only pilots had more fortitude we'd all make 500k/year, work eight days a month and have a pension to support our great-grand kids. You've got it all figured out. Who do you work for again?Yup, a charge led by none other than the West pilots because they didn't have the fortitude enough in the past to secure a pension--for which they blame ALPA.
Ah, yes, the blame game again. The West is to blame for refusing to concede seniority to the East. Guilty as charged!Just to be clear, I am not a USAir E or W pilot. I just don't choose to cast the entire blame on the East. There is plenty to go around.
I'm glad you brought up the TWA affair. You see, the Easties are trying to do to us exactly what the APA did to TWA: impose their own seniority integration. The APA is terrified of the idea of an arbitrator because they know it would be more fair.It's funny that if you are indeed ex-TWA, as your name suggests, you would have such an easy time defending such an egregious award after the beating you took from AA.
Wow, you just proved the sky is blue! Of course I'm biased, 100%. So what? At least I can admit my bias. What's yours?Could it be that you are biased? If you are an E or W pilot, you cannot be unbiased. End of argument.
ALPA merger policy provides the opportunity to work it out between yourselves. If you had done so, we wouldn't be here talking about it. It's funny that if you are indeed ex-TWA, as your name suggests, you would have such an easy time defending such an egregious award after the beating you took from AA. Could it be that you are biased? If you are an E or W pilot, you cannot be unbiased. End of argument.
Then don't state your opinion as fact anymore.
Actually, the history of the after effects proves something quite different -- something proven in court.
It is very presumptuous to imply that the AWA pilots would've attempted to get around binding arbitration. Not all pilots lack integrity as the Easties do (and apparently the handful of non-Easties who support their treacherous actions).
Which is why merger policies exist: to protect smaller pilot groups from egregious larger groups.
Fine. Big irrelevant difference. Nicolau didn't buy it.
Seriously, do you really not understand the difference between each airline's seniority and combining seniority? Lemme ask you this, something no Eastie has even tried to answer. On the day the merger was announced the bottom US Airways FO was a 1988 hire. Would you say he was junior or senior? I say he was junior. Having nobody below you employed makes you junior. The Easties make him senior to 2/3 of the AWA pilot group. So how can one pilot be both junior and senior at the same time?
You're right. That's why it isn't ALPA's merger policy to impose DOH. Every merger is difference therefore no one integration policy is fair.
That's right, if only pilots had more fortitude we'd all make 500k/year, work eight days a month and have a pension to support our great-grand kids. You've got it all figured out. Who do you work for again?
I'm glad you brought up the TWA affair. You see, the Easties are trying to do to us exactly what the APA did to TWA: impose their own seniority integration. The APA is terrified of the idea of an arbitrator because they know it would be more fair.
This is what pilot groups do when given the chance, they take advantage of the other group. That's why I favor ALPA Merger Policy (even the new, revised version) so much. It's a fair process. And unlike the Easties and you I understand that binding arbitration is binding even if I don't like the result.
Wow, you just proved the sky is blue! Of course I'm biased, 100%. So what? At least I can admit my bias. What's yours?