What ever happened to SWA going into MSP...

[ajhbubs84]

Or was there ever talk of Southwest starting service to Minneapolis? I could have swore there was a while back, but I am out of the loop.

Just curious...

 

[Saluki Dawg]

I'm sure it's on our short list of cities we'd like to serve. Just not enough available gates to make it work right now I suspect. This is a recurring problem for us lately in trying to find new domestic markets. If 2 or 3 gates in the same terminal or general area were to magically appear, then I'm sure that there would be an announcement of new service there.

 

[fiel12]

That question was asked a couple of times in my initial training last spring. From what was said, MSP is a favorable market because of the high frequency of O/Ds (originating departures). However, no immediate plans were in the mix. But who knows, maybe 5 or 10 years.

 

[ajhbubs84]

Werent there available gates at the Humphrey Terminal, but they were holding out for room at main (Lindbergh) terminal?

And NWA stepped in and said "not in our house."

 

[Saluki Dawg]

To my knowledge, there are no available gates in the main terminal. I don't know about the Humphrey Terminal, but I think that SunCountry has all of those spoken for.

 

[FR8dognit]

If there were gates at the HUMPH it seems as if it would be perfect for our model. We wouldn't be in all that mess over on the Lindy side and it would be easy access for our customers from whatever that highway is just to the south. When I was company commuting in and out of there a few years back I prayed my company got me a Sun Country ticket because it was so easy over there. Short walk, a lot less traffic and no waiting on people to push back to get into the gate right next door.

BTW--anyone know how many gates are over there and who is in them...just curious. Thanks FR8

 

[Av8tor]

AirTran has 2 gates in the Humphrey Terminal. H9 H10

 

[Wingsweep]

Only one more requirement...

SWA will go to MSP when they agree to widen the stalls in the mens' restrooms.

 

[CitationLover]

midwest uses humphrey also. one gate H-6.

http://www.midwestairlines.com/MAWeb/travelPlanner/airportInfo/airportPages/cityPages/MSP.html

 

[flying zephyr]

actually, midwest uses hotel 8 in minne

 

[CitationLover]

actually, midwest uses hotel 8 in minne

sorry, just used what our website said. you are correct though:

here all the airlines in MSP and shows who all is in Humphrey.
http://www.mspairport.com/msp/Airlines/passenger.aspx

 

[firstthird]

1 - we might have other higher priorities (most likely)

2 - NWA is known as a fierce competitor in their fortress hubs, we do okay at DTW but aren't exactly expanding there.

3 - there is a rumor that Herb made a gentleman's agreement with NWA back in the day when we moved into MDW after Midway (?) went bankrupt. something about if NWA wouldn't fight us there we'd stay out of MSP. probably not true but who knows.

 

[ajhbubs84]

If there were gates at the HUMPH it seems as if it would be perfect for our model. We wouldn't be in all that mess over on the Lindy side and it would be easy access for our customers from whatever that highway is just to the south. When I was company commuting in and out of there a few years back I prayed my company got me a Sun Country ticket because it was so easy over there. Short walk, a lot less traffic and no waiting on people to push back to get into the gate right next door.

I agree completely. After the huge renovation and revamp of the Humpty Dumpty, it is the definition of convienient. Crowds are always small, lines are always short and access to parking and freeways is simple.

I am still paying for my tickets, so when ever I get the chance to go home to Minne, it is usually on Sun Country, cant pass up the free cheeseburgers.

If the rumor was true, I dont see why SWA would have passed up gates at the Hubert H....

 

[cargoflyr69]

I wonder why they haven't thought about STP, the St. Paul downtown airport. There is a 6,500 ft runway with ILS both directions. There is the old terminal building currently sitting empty that could be used. The only thing missing is ARFF, which could be done, even if only part time when SWA shows up...

FWIW, Capitol airlines did STP-ORD in the mid-90's in a metroliner. Capitol folded due to lack of Capital and bad mgmt. They only had 2 metroliners. SWA could pull it off!

Another good option is STC, St. Cloud, MN. Its ony a 30-45 minute drive on the interstate. the only airline there as of today is Mesaba

 

[Skycam]

I wonder why they haven't thought about STP, the St. Paul downtown airport. There is a 6,500 ft runway with ILS both directions. There is the old terminal building currently sitting empty that could be used. The only thing missing is ARFF, which could be done, even if only part time when SWA shows up...

FWIW, Capitol airlines did STP-ORD in the mid-90's in a metroliner. Capitol folded due to lack of Capital and bad mgmt. They only had 2 metroliners. SWA could pull it off!

Another good option is STC, St. Cloud, MN. Its ony a 30-45 minute drive on the interstate. the only airline there as of today is Mesaba

My guess would be because STP is prone to flooding from the Miss. River. I lived there for 12 years and there were times when several flight ops moved to MSP because of floods or because they were forecast. Runways were complately covered with 1 ft + of water. I always thought RST would be a good fit. STC is more like 1+15.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Are you sure there is a viable market for SWA out of Minnei? Not many trailer parks here:laugh:

 

[Cobra17]

20 - 25 mile finals in VMC....and you thought PHX was bad.

Alaska Airlines starts twice daily service between MSP and SEA on 10/26. Alaska also serves Hawaii...will likely add some competition to that market.

 

[trip]

The era of the redtail fortress is comming to an end, look for SWA in the not too distant future.

 

[swa737-700]

That question was asked a couple of times in my initial training last spring. From what was said, MSP is a favorable market because of the high frequency of O/Ds (originating departures). However, no immediate plans were in the mix. But who knows, maybe 5 or 10 years.

I believe that O/D is "Originating/Destination". In other words, lots of traffic originating and terminating at a specific airport, and that is what the traffic folks look at in determining new destinations. No need to start up a new destination if most of the folks are just passing through.

Regards,

Dan

 

[RedRum]

Red tail will be a Widget

The era of the redtail fortress is comming to an end, look for SWA in the not too distant future.

Trip,

You are right on that, but the red tail is not going away, just the paint.

If you think that Delta is going to give away MSP you have another thing coming.

What is the big rush to have SWA move in to MSP. MSP folks already have Sun Country to serve the market. Look how great they are doing.

I think it is funny how people think that SWA is this great airline. I have had the pleasure of riding on Fronteir Airlines and I think they have a much better product and the people are more friendly there. Just a typical example of PR and publc perception being everything nowadays.

SWA is an efficient carrier and the public seems to love it, but their day is coming soon. Within the next 5 years their management is going to be coming hard after their pilots for concessions. It's just the way it will shake out. It's only natural for management to eventually go to the cost side and extract it out of the pilots.

Thoughts?

 

[NuGuy]

Trip,

You are right on that, but the red tail is not going away, just the paint.

If you think that Delta is going to give away MSP you have another thing coming.

What is the big rush to have SWA move in to MSP. MSP folks already have Sun Country to serve the market. Look how great they are doing.

I think it is funny how people think that SWA is this great airline. I have had the pleasure of riding on Fronteir Airlines and I think they have a much better product and the people are more friendly there. Just a typical example of PR and publc perception being everything nowadays.

SWA is an efficient carrier and the public seems to love it, but their day is coming soon. Within the next 5 years their management is going to be coming hard after their pilots for concessions. It's just the way it will shake out. It's only natural for management to eventually go to the cost side and extract it out of the pilots.

Thoughts?

Pretty accurate. I don't wish SWA guys any ill, but EVERYONE has their turn in the barrel.

Nu

 

[Poahi]

I believe that O/D is "Originating/Destination". In other words, lots of traffic originating and terminating at a specific airport, and that is what the traffic folks look at in determining new destinations. ....
Dan

Dan,

You're right about MSP, but I remember during the NWA bankruptcy, this issue was raised and the MAC needed NWA to make good on its promises to keep the MSP hub.

The reality is that if SWA does to MSP what it's doing to DEN, NWA would break promises to stay and I don't think that's a risk the MAC wants to take. Plus - with Eagan being their HQ, I'd bet that both the MAC and NWA would keep SWA at bay. On the other hand, if SWA did make it in, I don't think NWA would get in to a predatory pricing fight like it did with Spirit in DTW. My memory is weak on that one, but I think NWA lost that case.

Either way, SWA is going to become more aggressive going forward.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Trip,

You are right on that, but the red tail is not going away, just the paint.

If you think that Delta is going to give away MSP you have another thing coming.

Thoughts?

Government ANti trust will make them give up some gates, Why struggle and fight for them when they will make them release them, then someone will take them... I personally would rather see them go elsewhere but I don't make those decesions.

If they wanted to do something similar to DEN in other "hub Cities" IMHO I don't see it being the DAL/NWA powerhouse they would go after, there are much weaker airlines to go after!

ANd before the Frontier guys step up to kick me in the Nuts, Unfortunately, you are just a casualty of war, again in my opinion, we are not after you in DEN.

KBB

 

[Saluki Dawg]

What is the big rush to have SWA move in to MSP. MSP folks already have Sun Country to serve the market. Look how great they are doing.

Actually, I thought I saw a story not too long ago about Sun Country looking for a loan from the State of MN in order to make it through the winter. I'm not say'n, they're in imminent danger of going Bankrupt, I'm just say'n, that there may be some gates opening up in the not too distant future.

 

[cargoflyr69]

Actually, I thought I saw a story not too long ago about Sun Country looking for a loan from the State of MN in order to make it through the winter. I'm not say'n, they're in imminent danger of going Bankrupt, I'm just say'n, that there may be some gates opening up in the not too distant future.

Uh, yeah... Last I checked the state of MN didn't have any extra money for themselves. Gov. Pawlenty has done a pretty good job of not balancing our state budget.

 

[Whataburger]

Are you sure there is a viable market for SWA out of Minnei? Not many trailer parks here:laugh:

http://twincities.citysearch.com/yellowpages/directory/Twin_Cities_MN/140/293/page1.htmlTornadoes need homes too.

 

[trip]

If you think that Delta is going to give away MSP you have another thing coming

They wont give it away, but it will slip away.

I grew up under the arrivals from the north and as a kid would listen to the Northwest pilots on my multi- band radio at night. I hoped to be one someday. I am the last person to want to see SW elbow in.

 

[scoreboardII]

I grew up under the arrivals from the north and as a kid would listen to the Northwest pilots on my multi- band radio at night. I hoped to be one someday. I am the last person to want to see SW elbow in.

Sorry, kid, looks like Delta is elbowing into your dream, not SWA.

 

[OMNIDC10FO]

To be fair, he did say "hoped"! I believe that is past tense!

 

[PinnacleDude]

Trip,

You are right on that, but the red tail is not going away, just the paint.

If you think that Delta is going to give away MSP you have another thing coming.

What is the big rush to have SWA move in to MSP. MSP folks already have Sun Country to serve the market. Look how great they are doing.

I think it is funny how people think that SWA is this great airline. I have had the pleasure of riding on Fronteir Airlines and I think they have a much better product and the people are more friendly there. Just a typical example of PR and publc perception being everything nowadays.

SWA is an efficient carrier and the public seems to love it, but their day is coming soon. Within the next 5 years their management is going to be coming hard after their pilots for concessions. It's just the way it will shake out. It's only natural for management to eventually go to the cost side and extract it out of the pilots.

Thoughts?

I see neither SWA in MSP or concessions for the SWA pilots in the next 5 years. I think SWA has plenty to work on with the markets they serve and I think they know it. Why try and muscle in on a healthy NWA/DAL in MSP when you can attack DEN with two carriers struggling financially?