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Change the Guard!

ALPO uses pattern bargaining, a practice in which collective bargaining at one union is predicated on the outcome of another closely related in time. In other words, ALPO staggers negotiations for its locals so to build on each other. United, Northwest, Delta, etc. all have staggered agreement dates so to allow contract cycles to not overlap; therefore allowing ALPO to base arguments on provisions at other carriers. If United gets a particular trip rig, it's a given that Northwest can afford it also, but let's tweak it a little...and so on. The UAW perfected it and after the UAW just took a $3 billion annual concessions hit at GM, the honeymoon is over.

There is NO WAY on this green earth that ALPA would have allowed ANY of its locals to volunteer a paycut to prevent future losses. Imagine if Delta had accepted concessions the first time they were approached. The annual cost savings could have been built up, retained more cash, and Delta could lean on its creditors saying "even our pilots are doing their part." ALPO wouldn't allow it because it would start a domino effect at other ALPA carriers. There was also INCREDIBLE mistrust of management and for very good reason (golden parachutes). Nevertheless, this is the undoing of ALPA.

Bottom line is this, when you have a positive working relationship between management and a union, there is trust. If SWA or JB management ever needed a rollback in rates, it wouldn't take for hell to freeze over. American proved that even the largest carrier in the world can make it happen, and that is because they did not have a big brother trying to protect its interests at airlines with different seniority lists.

However, ALPA does have the opportunity to reinvent itself and decentralize its focus on ALPA National and concentrate on local efforts. ALPA needs leadership, and it will NEVER come from Woerth's office. How ironic that Woerthless always chastized LCC pilots for downgrading industry wages, and now he would kill to get SWA payrates. Someone called JB a cult? Since when does being happy at work make you a member of a cult?
 
The Prussian said:
Quote from Splinter:
"Competition baby! Don't you think Southwest pilots want to bury jetBlue, AirTran, and Frontier? You bet...and the feeling is shared. They die, we grow, they lose, we win. No alliances."

Sadly, your thoughts misrepresent a lot of our views...

Seriously? Herb put on war paint and dressed in fatigues when he "went to war" against Texas Int., Continental, Braniff, etc. Don't tell me SWA wants to share the market with anyone..."us against the world" is what Herb used to make SWA the inimitable juggernaut it is today. Your whole workforce shows up everyday trying to figure out new ways to kick everyone else's tail. Kudos.
 
Better yet, ask a TWA guy about the benefits of a common union between two pilot groups. And what happens when there ain't one.

Word of advice Huck. When trying to shine a good light on alpo don't look for any positive words from TWA pilots. i would rather see alpo wither die and go away and make way for a union with some power and effectiveness. Maybe even an outfit that actually looks out for it's members rather than the self serving beauracracy that alpo has become.
 
Read my quote you pasted. It ain't about ALPA - it is about a common union during an acquisition.

Do you think you would have done worse had AA been in the same union?

You guys are bucking hundreds of years of labor history. The world has changed but not that much. And the UAW concessions show that a national union does react to the market.
 
Looks like the Anti ALPA thread of the week.

Translation: I don't understand how the system works, I have to blame someone.. who will listen?

Get informed..it is trhe only way to fix the problem...
 
SWA/FO said:
:beer: I agree..... The FedEx dude doesn't because they kicked their "in house" union to the curb and brought in ALPA.

FedEx has got to be ALPA's only remaining shinning star.



Yeah, and just look how much money they are leaving on the table. Typical ALPA pu$$ies.
 
Huck

My understanding is that even of both TWA and AA were ALPA, ALPA wouldn't have done anything at all. They always "wash their hands" when 2 ALPA carriers are talking about merging- telling them they aren't able to get involved at all. Conflict of interest? I don't know.

What DID seem to happen is that the APA (AA) was courted by ALPA. ALPA was so hoping to get the APA to come on over to ALPA that ALPA rolled over and died for the TWA guys. Then lo and behold! The APA didn't join ALPA.

And I am not sure if "worse" was possible.....

ALPA is only as good as your MEC.
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Looks like the Anti ALPA thread of the week.

Translation: I don't understand how the system works, I have to blame someone.. who will listen?

Get informed..it is trhe only way to fix the problem...

In my short few weeks here I have come across a few of your posts with the same pattern......an elitist, arrogant attitude that also has no answers but delights in shooting down the thoughts of others. So enlighten us, oh wonder of the aviation community, as to the intricate workings of ALPA and airline labor relations. Please provide references and cite all sources. A brief explanation is preferred, but a more lengthy analysis will also be considered.

Oh, BTW, Woerth is worthless, as are your condescending posts. JMHO.
 
pylut said:
Word of advice Huck. When trying to shine a good light on alpo don't look for any positive words from TWA pilots. i would rather see alpo wither die and go away and make way for a union with some power and effectiveness. Maybe even an outfit that actually looks out for it's members rather than the self serving beauracracy that alpo has become.

AMEN! Preach on!
 
FedEx1 said:
Huck
What DID seem to happen is that the APA (AA) was courted by ALPA. ALPA was so hoping to get the APA to come on over to ALPA that ALPA rolled over and died for the TWA guys. Then lo and behold! The APA didn't join ALPA.

Exactly.

320AV8R
 

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