what does the future of airline-flying hold, in terms of compensation?

[dickburns]

Pay took a hit a few years ago, but has leveled off and is still pretty damn good at the top levels. However, how long do you have to be in, and what does it take to see that kinda pay?

I know of guys who are in their early 20s making close to $100k as controllers, and some of them talk about switching back to flying. Obviously, they'd take a HUGE paycut to go into the regionals or anything, bt how long would it be til they'd see that same kinda scratch again, and would it be worth it?

I tell them no, stay with the controlling if you like it, but who knows how that is.

Thoughts?

 

[Speedtape]

Pay took a hit a few years ago, but has leveled off and is still pretty damn good at the top levels. However, how long do you have to be in, and what does it take to see that kinda pay?

I know of guys who are in their early 20s making close to $100k as controllers, and some of them talk about switching back to flying. Obviously, they'd take a HUGE paycut to go into the regionals or anything, bt how long would it be til they'd see that same kinda scratch again, and would it be worth it?

I tell them no, stay with the controlling if you like it, but who knows how that is.
r
Thoughts?

The answer to your question is yes--it would be worth the switch.

1. Pay is as low as it will go and this was brought about by a "FAR REACHING CAMPAIGN" that amounted to a "Great Filling Station Holdup!" This was led by the ATA Mafia and the respective Airline Board of Directors with the help of "friendly" Bankruptcy Judges (not real judges by the way.) This Mob mentality driven campaign could only have been achieved through the "old" bankruptcy laws. It could be more difficult today. This whole environment was created in the Bush II pro management/anti-labor political environment. Interestingly enough, the Eastern strike and Continental Bankruptcy engineered by Frank Lorenzo occurred under the administration of George Bush #1.

2. Don't look at today's pay rates. They will greatly improve in coming years with upcoming contract negotiations. The pendulum has swung too far for management. The "Taking It Back Campaign" will be a powerful force. However, the initial "taking it back" will probably be led by the APA pilots. Their timing for redress is first. They will reset the benchmark.

3. The "supply vs demand" for pilots favors labor. Only about 300 commercial licenses were issued last year. There is a great number of pilots that will be retiring in coming years--even if there is a change in mandatory retirement age.

4. Government forecasts still call for an explosive growth in air travel demand in future years. The industry and companies have been on a capacity reduction trend since shortly after 9/11. If the present demand continues to grow, capacity will have to grow which will create more jobs.

5. Other very important factors in switching is job gratification and the "not taking your job home with you" benefit. These factors have an intangible value that is priceless. Most people I know always look forward to coming to work, and also look forward to going home--without taking the job home.

In summary, do not look at the wage and benefits at major carriers today! They can only get better and will! Priceless advice that is often given by the old wise ones, is the time to get into this industry is when things look the worst! There is still a bright and rewarding future for this profession! Like most of my fellow professionals, I love my job and the people I work with!

 

[Propsync]

3. The "supply vs demand" for pilots favors labor. Only about 300 commercial licenses were issued last year.

That sounds a little low. I'd believe 3000. Still a low number, no doubt.

I tend to disagree with your points. I really think management has played its cards correctly in the past few years. Management has figured out whipsawing, concessions, RJ's, mergers, scope, and J4J's to a level that for a union guy/gal should be sickening. It will be up to management to try to keep the bar low. ALPA has been so terribly ineffective at so many levels, I don't see how they will dig out. Pray Southwest or anyone else doesn't take concessions anytime soon, or skies get opened up to foreign carriers, it will be just one more thing to overcome at the table. Plus age 65 WILL create a bubble for those trying to break through.

So my question is back to all y'all. How do you graduate with 75k of debt, work for the wages you work for, and still be able to retire when you want to, without being a slave for this profession?

 

[Propsync]

double post

 

[Andy Neill]

That sounds a little low. I'd believe 3000. Still a low number, no doubt.

Low indeed. According to AOPA there were 2125 commercial certificates issued in 4th Qtr 2006 alone.

 

[Spiritflight]

The answer to your question is yes--it would be worth the switch.

Blah Blah Blah

Kit Darby, I didn't know you were posting on FlightInfo! Business must be slow...

 

[J and E's Daddy]

Whenit comes to pay, I am making less now than what I was making 6 years ago. And in six years, the cost of living has nearly increased by 50%

 

[Andy Neill]

Whenit comes to pay, I am making less now than what I was making 6 years ago. And in six years, the cost of living has nearly increased by 50%

Will you be saying the same thing 6 years from now? Are you going to keep doing what you have been doing or will you do something to change what you can? Will you be blaming someone who is not giving you what you deserve?

The boat you are in is not unusual or unreasonable. To stay in that boat is.

 

[TXAirHopper]

most importantly they should do what they love... money doesnt matter if you hate your job.

 

[regionaltard]

The Puppy Farmers vs. Jet Campers tag-team salary smackdown will still be a factor as long as compensation levels are being driven from the bottom rather than from the top. You'd better believe that airline management has taken note of the fact of the minimal compensation that some people will accept for the privilege of sitting in the left seat of an Airbus for instance.

It's likely that the Skybus cancer will spread throughout the LCC segment first, and at some point a critical mass of the narrow body fleet being flown by captains pulling down less than a hundred bucks an hour will be reached & the rest of the industry will have no choice but to take notice and act accordingly. In the meantime, expect management to do whatever it has to do in order to maintain the initiative gained through their skillful manipulation of the Bankruptcy laws.

From their point of view, a big chunk of the vig in the mergers and acquisitions game comes from the certain knowledge that pilot A will be so concerned about the possibility of being even minimally disadvantaged by pilot B that the fact that they're collectively getting screwed will escape relatively unnoticed. Exhibit A: East vs. West. "Taking it Back" will never happen as long as we see the guys in the other uniforms as a bigger threat than the guys in the suits. Even rumors are enough to divert significant resources from repairing the damage that's already been done.

Real compensation for pilots has been cut nearly in half in the last 25 years, and there's no reason to expect much more than an incremental reversal of that trend in the near term. Even if we as pilots had our $hit a lot more together than we currently do, there are a lot of economic factors coming down the pike that are unfriendly to our cause and completely beyond our control.

The short version? I see pain.