What did Mesa agree to??

[azpilot]

While I agree that flying was being transferred to Freedom and there were plenty of people signing up I think the Mesa folks should have voted no. HP was writing something into its contract saying no non-union carriers could fly their routes. If passed that would have meant no Freedom.

Also, the turbo prop guys got sold down the river. There are now scumbag Freedom guys who will get to remain in the jet while those that have paid their dues are stuck in the 1900. FO's can't move to the jet, 18 month seat lock as Captain in turbo prop. What happens when you are in the 1900 and can't upgrade but people of the street are hired into the RJ?

That is total bullsh!t If you couldn't get anything better you shouldn't have signed a 5 year contract. If you couldn't get pay increases you should have worked a lot harder on the others sections of the contract like days off.

I place a lot of blame on ALPA for telling you to sign the thing. JO clearly won, you lost and I wish you luck.

 

[DruDown]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's Get Real Now!

Whisky

I do not fly for Mesa - I left Mesa for several reasons including pay and QOL.

As you said, you are already benefiting from the industry leading contract - good for you!

Now put yourself in the shoes of a Mesa pilot, knowing and experiencing what they have in the past up to present day, including all of the whipsawing, the closure of CC Air, the creation of Freedumb (which had taken flying away from Mesa), the set up of a strike fund and strike centers, the influence of the mainline partners and the current condition of the industry and economy. While some of the Mesa pilots voted the TA down (which would have been my vote), I know that those who voted for it did not vote yes on a whim. I know that serious thought went into most of their decisions and weighing of the consequences. And yes, we all have a responsibility to all pilots, we also have individual responsibilities and responsibilities we are held accountable to fellow pilots at our company.

Especially as a regional pilot, understanding the life, you have to realize that this was not an easy decision for these pilots to make. If everyone is going to cry unity and brotherhood, how about supporting these pilots and understanding that the way they saw it, voting NO meant closure of Mesa and expansion of Freedumb. You can't tell me that 1400 more pilots on the street is better than what we have now, with Freedumb stopped, all MAG pilots flying and more jobs for furloughed mainline pilots (whom all regional pilots at some level have undercut by nature of the fact they work for a regional who has taken mainline flying).

Also, realize that this is all business. I don't believe for a minute that anything done by the Mesa pilots has been malicious in intent nor should they be treated as such. Do you honestly believe that the MEC thought, "Hey, let's take a sub-par contract and we can steal flying away from Air Wisconsin and SkyWest and ACA." I do not doubt, however that management had this in mind, as that is the nature of the business that they run. And remember - it's business, it's big dollars, and we are just the pawns in the process.

The more we all fight with each other, deny jumpseats, point fingers and have are efforts focused there, the more we all play into the hands of management and the more vulnerable we all are.

Let's all take this unfortunate situation and turn it into something to learn from so that as others go into negotiations similar mistakes, misinformation, negative effects, etc. are not repeated.

 

[bustinmins]

HP and the non-union addition to the CBA

From my observation and from a tactical stand point - HP could have written that into their contract but Freedom could have become unionized in their own house or alpa in the interim.

Thus you would have had them enter into that and screw all of the other Mesa guys who stood firm for CC Air to be reinstated on our list, captured Freedom under Mesa Air Group flying and gave some furloughed US Airways guys a ride. Think about it - who would you rather be competing with these days? Freedom guys who have no honor to the group or Mesa Guys who went out on a limb for ? I think it is a simple choice.

Granted the TA isn't up to the par that has been set forth by other regionals - but there were no concessions given. MAG didn't gain much but they did gain and they captured Freedom and an excellent scope clause while putting up the road blocks to prevent whipsawing later on.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ok Dru, everything that you've listed is horible and given that the best solution would have been to shut it down!!! They will never have any power because JO knows all that he has to do is paint them into a corner and they'll run screaming for the first door. Jo has won he beat them and he beat them bad. He used the best tactics in the book and they fell hook line and sinker. Now on another note, lets be perfectly clear on something, mesa is not taking ANY flying for us and Air Wisconsin we have phased out the operation of turbo props on this property and by June they will be all gone making us an all jet operator. Now just because mesa was called to take over the runs of ten (10) turbo props, they come in yelling we are back and taking flying from Air Wisconsin and pushing them out of Den, not going to happen. TEN is all they have, ten small runs. Finally, mesa's act hurt the regional airline pilots negotiating position and it set it back several years. It was purely self serving and without reguard to any of the other carriers. Comair laid the first blow, Air Wisconsin beat them against the ropes and the fight was all but won, now mesa gets in the fight and stands there gets hit with a sucker punch and lost the entire battle.

Dru I will never understand their or your position on this subject nor will I ever respect the mesa people...

BTW just as soon as that j4j super senority hits watch how they began to scream foul.

WD.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Finally, mesa's act hurt the regional airline pilots negotiating position and it set it back several years. It was purely self serving and without reguard to any of the other carriers.

Of course their vote was self serving. Please direct us to the pilot who would possibly vote himself out of a job, and then explain it to his wife and kids thusly:

"I'm sorry, we can't keep the house because I couldn't, with a clear conscience, vote for a contract that would make it more difficult for Air Whiskey to negotiate their contract when their renewal comes up."

I think it has been explained fairly clearly what a corner they WERE painted into... They took what they believed was the best they could get, possibly against their will, but sure as shootin' they did it for selfish reasons. I would expect nothing less.

By the by, am I the only one who's noticed what a shambles this whole industry is in? Is it really any wonder that it's difficult to get a great contract out of ANYONE right now, much less the already difficult-to-deal-with Mesa management?

Also... Isn't this only Mesa's second contract? The first contract or two at MOST companies are not that good. I guess I am simply unsurprised by how this worked out.

But still... 8 days off on reserve? Who on earth agreed to THAT??

 

[RJPilott]

Please direct us to the pilot who would possibly vote himself out of a job, and then explain it to his wife and kids thusly:

I'll give you many pilots... Comair... they voted themselves out of a job for 3 months, and were prepared to do it for longer. I personally know several that voted themselves out of a job with Comair knowing that they would never return.. and they never did.

But still... 8 days off on reserve? Who on earth agreed to THAT??

Mesa did. They also agreed to 1.15 per diem and pay scales that reflect most Flight Attendant contracts. Actually, thats not fair to FA's. Most FA contracts have better pay and work rules. I think JB FA's start at 30/hr based on a 70+ hour month and that is their first contract. No Experience necessary....

actually i think they have to be 20 years old and no visible tattoos to get hired... pretty strict requirements huh?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Thank you RJPilot I wasn't even going to respond to IP. I will say this though, Air Wisconsin is a group of SEASONED PROFESSIONAL. When it comes contract time we will be forced to look at the mesa deal and we will laugh. Comments will be made to the effect that mesa doesn't even count in fact they can barely complete a flight much less compete with us, that would be like putting Davis high school basket ball team up against the Lakers you guys aren't even in our league. You hurt CHQ and Mesaba who are now trying to better themselves and both will tow the line unlike you sniveling cowards. NO RESPECT!!!!!

WD.

 

[jborsdrf]

Seasoned Pros

Well that's it my family is only going to ride Airwis from now on not those sub par guys at MESA. Because "Trickdaddy the Coolest Member" is a "SEASONED PROFESSIONAL". Hey just because you guys fly 4 engine planes doesn't make you major airline pilots. Since when is a 3000 hour FO a seasoned pilot.

Trickdaddy your attitude is far more harmful to our industry than MESA's new contract.

Give me a f*cking break man if you were professional you'd shut your mouth. I used to have a lot of respect for you Airwis guys but now I'm starting to wonder. It takes a big man to hide behind his screen name and talk sh*t. It also takes a real to pro to threaten jumpseat privilages.

My pilot group is negotiating a new contract as we speak, with the added destraction of an ALPA sponsered ass* reaming from J4j. If you are unhappy with the contract we vote for you better have the balls to look me in the eye and say it to my face.

Anywho... 8 days off what the f*ck is that?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Seasoned professional go for what they are really worth!!! What are you worth?? Just because we fly larger a/c (4 eng) has absolutly nothing to do with it and you will see just how bad that contract is when you get down to the bare bones of your companies negotiations. No doubt in my mind that it's going to hurt your position and if you don't think so than you are a fool!! Now as far as my attitude doing harm, your way off son I stood the line remember? I was willing to walk in spite of what it ment to me and my family to get what was fair. You might want to remember that next time before you start spouting off.

WD.

 

[jborsdrf]

Trick Daddy the Professional....

Hey chief maybe you need me to refresh your memory, when you guys almost struck the market for pilots was a slightly better. It's a sh*tload easier to hold the line when you might be able to find a job somewhere other than Home Depot. It would of been interesting to see what would of happened had MESA struck but will never know.

J.O. pulled a classic move right out of the post dereg strike breakers play book, scare em with an alter ego then trade them a piece of s*it contract to get rid of it. You'd think we'd all learn by now.

Anyway in regards to your attitude, it's fine to be an as*hole I just wish you'd channel your energy more effectively. It's a little late to let the MESA pilot group know how dissapoited you are after the ink is dry. Next time why not try lending your support before hand.