What could NJA order super-mid

[t-bone]

The CL-300 is a very nice airplane inside and out. But I have to believe this might be causing a bit of hesitation in Columbus:

http://www.ainonline.com/?q=aviation-news/ainmxreports/2011-10-12/nprm-cl300-trim-actuator

The phrase "loss of the airplane" tends to get my attention.

Per our DOM, maintenance on the actuators was beefed up a year ago, so this isn't an issue for those that keep up with their mx procedures. For the operators out there that aren't...an AD could be beneficial.

 

[G100driver]

The 2000 and globals are not even in the same category.

 

[BentOver]

I agree, although under the Netjets aircraft website the 2000 is considered large cabin. I was assuming something like the -300 would be alongside the X, G-200's in the midsize category? I also assume something like the 2000S would go into the large cabin category.

 

[Heavy Set]

Go for the CL300 baby!!! I love my airplane - versatile, comfortable and easy ProLine 21 up front. Come on and join the CL300 club with Flexjet and XOJet.

That said, the new technology of the Legacy 500 is intriguing. Remember that Netjets Europe did take a chance on the Falcon 7X and its new FBW technology. So, the precedent has been set (if the price is right).

 

[gunfyter]

They could take both the 2000S and the 300 or Embraer. I'd be happy.

I am guessing they don't care what pilots like though, but what they can sell best.

 

[BentOver]

They could take both the 2000S and the 300 or Embraer. I'd be happy.

I am guessing they don't care what pilots like though, but what they can sell best.

If it had steam gauges but would sell they'd get it....They could absolutely care less what's up front unless it can save them on training costs somehow.

Which IMO is not necessarily a bad thing. If it'll get me back quicker I'd fly a 152.

 

[208starcheck]

X and Sovereign are mid size
G250 is the only super-mid NJA has
2000 is considered large cabin

The 2000 is so interesting because it's a large cabin for a mid cabin price.

NJA still has to announce a mid and super-mid.

 

[BentOver]

X and Sovereign are mid size
G250 is the only super-mid NJA has
2000 is considered large cabin

The 2000 is so interesting because it's a large cabin for a mid cabin price.

NJA still has to announce a mid and super-mid.

Next question is to determine what in those fleets are due for replacements? I think the X's are the oldest and could see a TEN replacement order...

Sovereigns are still fairly new.

G200's are also still fairly new.

2000's are newer and older.

Would the -300 be a good 2000 replacement?

I still think it will be a TEN and -300 order... Someday in the future:laugh:

 

[7on7Off]

Just wondering, whose buying shares in these airplanes? What's the incentive for an "antiquated" X owner to fork over the capital to buy a new "TEN"?

 

[jonjuan]

Just wondering, whose buying shares in these airplanes? What's the incentive for an "antiquated" X owner to fork over the capital to buy a new "TEN"?

Lol-nothing. New shares simply aren't selling. Heard flops is selling many of their p300 deliveries to entities elsewhere.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The only thing I DO know, is that the G-280 will NOT be the new NJA super mid-size. Gulfstream was asked for a proposal. They DECLINED to participate.

I looked at or walked through all the contenders last week at NBAA. My rating:

Falcon 2000S
CL-300
Legacy 500 (It was only a mock-up)

 

[ozpilot]

Just wondering, whose buying shares in these airplanes? What's the incentive for an "antiquated" X owner to fork over the capital to buy a new "TEN"?

That's a very good question. A couple of years ago I took an owner out to dinner while we were waiting for a recovery flight. He asked me the same thing. I didn't have an answer.


Maybe market the TEN as a new fleet?

 

[jtf]

Probably the biggest reason they will buy into new airframes is that the company will stop selling older jets when they get rid of them- so if you want to keep flying in the X, eventually you will most likely have to buy into a Ten, or go to a competitor. The fleets are all getting older and they are all going to be sold eventually.

 

[KiddDynomite]

The only reason they need new airframes is because the depreciation on the existing ones is running out. The biggest reason any of the fractionals sold airplanes was that under King George II there was a fifty percent depreciation in the first year, so they essentially bought their share in a new airplane for fifty cents on the dollar. Those benefits are no longer available under the muslim. Standard depreciation is back but new airframes are needed to get any tax break.

 

[BoilerUP]

Currently aircraft owners can get 100% first-year depreciation if an airframe is bought AND enters service in 2011.

 

[KiddDynomite]

Currently aircraft owners can get 100% first-year depreciation if an airframe is bought AND enters service in 2011.

Thanks for the correction but then that leads to the next question. Why aren't we selling new airplanes like they're going out of style?

 

[BoilerUP]

Thanks for the correction but then that leads to the next question. Why aren't we selling new airplanes like they're going out of style?

Individuals and corporations who need depreciation and have cash are buying new airplanes in situations when same-year deliveries are becoming available. I doubt many manufacturers have a bunch of white tails outside their factories unlike 2009 for this very reason.

For everybody else, there are issues like making sure you can afford the plane, arranging financing, and probably the big one - accepting a large loss in value on the plane you already own, if you can in fact sell it, to buy a new plane.

 

[208starcheck]

That's a very good question. A couple of years ago I took an owner out to dinner while we were waiting for a recovery flight. He asked me the same thing. I didn't have an answer.


Maybe market the TEN as a new fleet?

Why buy a new car when the current car is only 5 years old and runs great? Because it's new.

 

[ozpilot]

Why buy a new car when the current car is only 5 years old and runs great? Because it's new.

That's true, but if you buy new and there are still 70 used X's in the fleet, what are the chances that your new TEN will be available for your trip?

 

[jtf]

The odds would be low, but as the company sells away the older airframes, the customers won't really have the choice to buy used unless they go elsewhere. That is a risk that NJA has to take eventually since the older airframes need to be continuously removed before they are just too old. I'm sure some will leave the program, but the business must move forward eventually and there will be at least some who like that new plane smell.

 

[208starcheck]

That's true, but if you buy new and there are still 70 used X's in the fleet, what are the chances that your new TEN will be available for your trip?

That was a complaint I heard a couple times with XL owners when buying a new XLS. I don't have an answer except X and Ten would most likely be different fleets. I image it would still be a problem though. I know their management fees are higher if they don't move to a newer airframe, because mx cost are higher for older airframes.

 

[rajflyboy]

Midsize?

Speak no more "Lear 85"

If you want performance performance performance which is all i damn here anymore then why not get the performance jet. Fill up with people and fuel and go out of any airport you want too.

 

[LAZYB]

Never buy one of the first 200 serial numbers of a new a/c, unless you want to do customer flight test and maintenance proving.

 

[jonjuan]

Never buy one of the first 200 serial numbers of a new a/c, unless you want to do customer flight test and maintenance proving.

Thanks Einstein. No frax would exist if they followed your " advice."

 

[rajflyboy]

Never buy one of the first 200 serial numbers of a new a/c, unless you want to do customer flight test and maintenance proving.

You are confusing Cessna products with Bombardiar Learjet products.

 

[BoilerUP]

You are confusing Cessna products with Bombardiar Learjet products.

Hopefully the Lear 85 won't replicate the 45's entry into service record...

 

[LAZYB]

Thanks Einstein. No frax would exist if they followed your " advice."

"Show your work" Professor Hawking

It's a generalization Professor. What makes a LR-85 so great and when will it be really certified. Maybe ya want to buy a Horizon or whatever they call it now....

 

[GUMP_check]

Any word on recall at NetJets?

 

[fischman]

Nothing.

 

[rajflyboy]

Any word on recall at NetJets?

you will have to sit in the "Banana Hammick" to figure that out