What could NJA order super-mid

[jonjuan]

Yeah why would you want to have a plane people like and was designed for the rigors of fractional operation?

Ask GVFlyer about the 300.

He said the G200 is a better all around plane than the 300. Lololol

 

[hammer2]

He said the G200 is a better all around plane than the 300. Lololol

Let's show up early so we can smear ShineMaster on the de-icing boots? :laugh:

 

[208starcheck]

A couple months ago I was a believed the super-mid size for NJA would be the CL300. Great aircraft, crews and owners rave about it. Now I'm of a different opinion. By the time NJA is able to get a CL300 program running it would be 10 year old technology. All future NJA fleets will be bigger like the Excel. How many Excels are on property, 100? How long would it take NJA to build a super-mid fleet of even 50? At least 4-5 years. Then the newest plane would be 15 year old technology.

 

[jonjuan]

A couple months ago I was a believed the super-mid size for NJA would be the CL300. Great aircraft, crews and owners rave about it. Now I'm of a different opinion. By the time NJA is able to get a CL300 program running it would be 10 year old technology. All future NJA fleets will be bigger like the Excel. How many Excels are on property, 100? How long would it take NJA to build a super-mid fleet of even 50? At least 4-5 years. Then the newest plane would be 15 year old technology.

Who cares about the technology-the pax? Are you saying there won't be follow on iterations/updates to the CL300, for example? For a super-mid, there's not much you can improve on the performance. Besides, flight options is growing with some pretty old technology. They've doubled the X fleet in the past 2 years. Someone's voting with their feet. All the average frax cares about is a decent refurbed cabin, throw in wifi, make it cheaper than the competition and blammo, you have stability.

 

[X-rated]

damn right .... Thats why it needs to be the 2000S

Just curious what the differences are between the LX and S? Other than 2000 pounds less fuel and a 1200 pound lower GW, the S appears to be the same plane. There must be other differences, or how could they justify the 6 million dollar difference in price? Both seem like great airplanes, but the LX is a bit pricy for it's size.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The CL-300 is a very nice airplane inside and out. But I have to believe this might be causing a bit of hesitation in Columbus:

http://www.ainonline.com/?q=aviation-news/ainmxreports/2011-10-12/nprm-cl300-trim-actuator

The phrase "loss of the airplane" tends to get my attention.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< damn right .... Thats why it needs to be the 2000S >>>>

F2000S

The S has more efficient engines + inboard slats.

 

[G100driver]

Just curious what the differences are between the LX and S? Other than 2000 pounds less fuel and a 1200 pound lower GW, the S appears to be the same plane. There must be other differences, or how could they justify the 6 million dollar difference in price? Both seem like great airplanes, but the LX is a bit pricy for it's size.

It is the same plane ... just cannot go as far and it has a cookie cutter interior. No that it matters for netjets.

The LX is an international aircraft with an international price. S was designed to compete against the CL-300. Apples to Apples the S blows the CL-300 out of the water. Especially when you look at avionics, pressurization and cabin size.

Not that my opinion counts or Net Jets even cares, but the S would be the best replacement for the 2000.

 

[X-rated]

It is the same plane ... just cannot go as far and it has a cookie cutter interior. No that it matters for netjets.

The LX is an international aircraft with an international price. S was designed to compete against the CL-300. Apples to Apples the S blows the CL-300 out of the water. Especially when you look at avionics, pressurization and cabin size.

Not that my opinion counts or Net Jets even cares, but the S would be the best replacement for the 2000.

Thanks for the reply. It looks like they threw in auto brakes too. Definitely an impressive looking airplane especially at that price.

 

[BentOver]

I really think, and hope, that atleast 25-50 orders will be for the upgraded Citation TEN... The reason is that it is, for the most part, the most popular and most utilized fleet.. (Based on when we were there)..

The current X's are also between 5-10 years old. And outdated tech. wise.

What else at NJA is considered super mid? G200, X, Sovereign....?) I was under the impression that most, besides the X, were somewhat newer airframes....

I also assumed that the Globals were replacements for the G's and 2000's. Why would they order more 2000S's if they have the Globals on the way?

I assumed that the -300's (or -85's,legacies) were planned replacements for types such as the Sovereigns, G200's...?


Also youtubed the Phenom 300... I think it's will be a nice replacement for the Ultra's, -400's.. Much nicer cabin, amenities, single point refueling and for us a nicer cockpit. Should sell well hopefully.

 

[t-bone]

The CL-300 is a very nice airplane inside and out. But I have to believe this might be causing a bit of hesitation in Columbus:

http://www.ainonline.com/?q=aviation-news/ainmxreports/2011-10-12/nprm-cl300-trim-actuator

The phrase "loss of the airplane" tends to get my attention.

Per our DOM, maintenance on the actuators was beefed up a year ago, so this isn't an issue for those that keep up with their mx procedures. For the operators out there that aren't...an AD could be beneficial.

 

[G100driver]

The 2000 and globals are not even in the same category.

 

[BentOver]

I agree, although under the Netjets aircraft website the 2000 is considered large cabin. I was assuming something like the -300 would be alongside the X, G-200's in the midsize category? I also assume something like the 2000S would go into the large cabin category.

 

[Heavy Set]

Go for the CL300 baby!!! I love my airplane - versatile, comfortable and easy ProLine 21 up front. Come on and join the CL300 club with Flexjet and XOJet.

That said, the new technology of the Legacy 500 is intriguing. Remember that Netjets Europe did take a chance on the Falcon 7X and its new FBW technology. So, the precedent has been set (if the price is right).

 

[gunfyter]

They could take both the 2000S and the 300 or Embraer. I'd be happy.

I am guessing they don't care what pilots like though, but what they can sell best.

 

[BentOver]

They could take both the 2000S and the 300 or Embraer. I'd be happy.

I am guessing they don't care what pilots like though, but what they can sell best.

If it had steam gauges but would sell they'd get it....They could absolutely care less what's up front unless it can save them on training costs somehow.

Which IMO is not necessarily a bad thing. If it'll get me back quicker I'd fly a 152.

 

[208starcheck]

X and Sovereign are mid size
G250 is the only super-mid NJA has
2000 is considered large cabin

The 2000 is so interesting because it's a large cabin for a mid cabin price.

NJA still has to announce a mid and super-mid.

 

[BentOver]

X and Sovereign are mid size
G250 is the only super-mid NJA has
2000 is considered large cabin

The 2000 is so interesting because it's a large cabin for a mid cabin price.

NJA still has to announce a mid and super-mid.

Next question is to determine what in those fleets are due for replacements? I think the X's are the oldest and could see a TEN replacement order...

Sovereigns are still fairly new.

G200's are also still fairly new.

2000's are newer and older.

Would the -300 be a good 2000 replacement?

I still think it will be a TEN and -300 order... Someday in the future:laugh:

 

[7on7Off]

Just wondering, whose buying shares in these airplanes? What's the incentive for an "antiquated" X owner to fork over the capital to buy a new "TEN"?

 

[jonjuan]

Just wondering, whose buying shares in these airplanes? What's the incentive for an "antiquated" X owner to fork over the capital to buy a new "TEN"?

Lol-nothing. New shares simply aren't selling. Heard flops is selling many of their p300 deliveries to entities elsewhere.