What could NJA order super-mid

[jonjuan]

It will be interesting to see if the Legacy 500 can remotely compete with the Challenger 300's

Remotely, maybe. The CL has a bigger cabin and more range. The pax could give a flip what is up front. The CL is what, 300 in numbers and as such is proven. The emb, zero history of ac this size. What's the risk of another H4000?
Fbw may appeal to flight depts, but in the frax, no one paying the bills cares. Plus, in the high utilization frax, what happens when Gunfighter is in Sheboygan and gets some fault he has never seen before on a brand new plane from a new manufacturer? He'll pin the gear and head back to the Hilton bar.

 

[gunfyter]

damn right .... Thats why it needs to be the 2000S

 

[hammer2]

damn right .... Thats why it needs to be the 2000S

Damn straight! There's one too many fractionals with the CL 300.

 

[johnsonrod]

Damn straight! There's one too many fractionals with the CL 300.

That's my point too. How would Netjets differentiate itself in that category if it uses the same aircraft as Flexjet and XOJet? What advantages could Netjets claim for that aircraft in that scenario?

Again, both the Phenom 300 order and the Global order were relative surprises. The Global is a proven aircraft (for the most part), but the Phenom 300 is still relatively new. Given the previous surprises, a Legacy 500 order (at a steep discount) wouldn't shock me. The marketing alone related to the latest and newest technology would be a differentiator for the Legacy 500. Marketing differentiation is a important in a commodity market (and the fractional market is becoming more commoditized with similar offerings and pricing).

I agree the Falcon 2000S would be another good choice given Netjet's history with the F2000 and the updated technology.

 

[LAZYB]

Damn straight! There's one too many fractionals with the CL 300.

Yeah why would you want to have a plane people like and was designed for the rigors of fractional operation?

Ask GVFlyer about the 300.

Who says there is always gonna be so many fractional operators?

 

[jonjuan]

Yeah why would you want to have a plane people like and was designed for the rigors of fractional operation?

Ask GVFlyer about the 300.

He said the G200 is a better all around plane than the 300. Lololol

 

[hammer2]

He said the G200 is a better all around plane than the 300. Lololol

Let's show up early so we can smear ShineMaster on the de-icing boots? :laugh:

 

[208starcheck]

A couple months ago I was a believed the super-mid size for NJA would be the CL300. Great aircraft, crews and owners rave about it. Now I'm of a different opinion. By the time NJA is able to get a CL300 program running it would be 10 year old technology. All future NJA fleets will be bigger like the Excel. How many Excels are on property, 100? How long would it take NJA to build a super-mid fleet of even 50? At least 4-5 years. Then the newest plane would be 15 year old technology.

 

[jonjuan]

A couple months ago I was a believed the super-mid size for NJA would be the CL300. Great aircraft, crews and owners rave about it. Now I'm of a different opinion. By the time NJA is able to get a CL300 program running it would be 10 year old technology. All future NJA fleets will be bigger like the Excel. How many Excels are on property, 100? How long would it take NJA to build a super-mid fleet of even 50? At least 4-5 years. Then the newest plane would be 15 year old technology.

Who cares about the technology-the pax? Are you saying there won't be follow on iterations/updates to the CL300, for example? For a super-mid, there's not much you can improve on the performance. Besides, flight options is growing with some pretty old technology. They've doubled the X fleet in the past 2 years. Someone's voting with their feet. All the average frax cares about is a decent refurbed cabin, throw in wifi, make it cheaper than the competition and blammo, you have stability.

 

[X-rated]

damn right .... Thats why it needs to be the 2000S

Just curious what the differences are between the LX and S? Other than 2000 pounds less fuel and a 1200 pound lower GW, the S appears to be the same plane. There must be other differences, or how could they justify the 6 million dollar difference in price? Both seem like great airplanes, but the LX is a bit pricy for it's size.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The CL-300 is a very nice airplane inside and out. But I have to believe this might be causing a bit of hesitation in Columbus:

http://www.ainonline.com/?q=aviation-news/ainmxreports/2011-10-12/nprm-cl300-trim-actuator

The phrase "loss of the airplane" tends to get my attention.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< damn right .... Thats why it needs to be the 2000S >>>>

F2000S

The S has more efficient engines + inboard slats.

 

[G100driver]

Just curious what the differences are between the LX and S? Other than 2000 pounds less fuel and a 1200 pound lower GW, the S appears to be the same plane. There must be other differences, or how could they justify the 6 million dollar difference in price? Both seem like great airplanes, but the LX is a bit pricy for it's size.

It is the same plane ... just cannot go as far and it has a cookie cutter interior. No that it matters for netjets.

The LX is an international aircraft with an international price. S was designed to compete against the CL-300. Apples to Apples the S blows the CL-300 out of the water. Especially when you look at avionics, pressurization and cabin size.

Not that my opinion counts or Net Jets even cares, but the S would be the best replacement for the 2000.

 

[X-rated]

It is the same plane ... just cannot go as far and it has a cookie cutter interior. No that it matters for netjets.

The LX is an international aircraft with an international price. S was designed to compete against the CL-300. Apples to Apples the S blows the CL-300 out of the water. Especially when you look at avionics, pressurization and cabin size.

Not that my opinion counts or Net Jets even cares, but the S would be the best replacement for the 2000.

Thanks for the reply. It looks like they threw in auto brakes too. Definitely an impressive looking airplane especially at that price.

 

[BentOver]

I really think, and hope, that atleast 25-50 orders will be for the upgraded Citation TEN... The reason is that it is, for the most part, the most popular and most utilized fleet.. (Based on when we were there)..

The current X's are also between 5-10 years old. And outdated tech. wise.

What else at NJA is considered super mid? G200, X, Sovereign....?) I was under the impression that most, besides the X, were somewhat newer airframes....

I also assumed that the Globals were replacements for the G's and 2000's. Why would they order more 2000S's if they have the Globals on the way?

I assumed that the -300's (or -85's,legacies) were planned replacements for types such as the Sovereigns, G200's...?


Also youtubed the Phenom 300... I think it's will be a nice replacement for the Ultra's, -400's.. Much nicer cabin, amenities, single point refueling and for us a nicer cockpit. Should sell well hopefully.