What can a first year guy make?

[Propblast]

I'm just interested in how much a first year guy can expect to make at NetJets, Fligt Options, Shares, etc. Also what is the current upgrade time? No embellishment, just looking for the facts.

Thanks,

-PB

 

[gunfyter]

$28 -29 K with a little overtime at NJA. After 3 or 4 yrs that goes up to maybe $34 K

 

[FO4life]

www.airlinepilotpay.com

 

[Heavy Set]

$28 -29 K with a little overtime at NJA. After 3 or 4 yrs that goes up to maybe $34 K

Doesn't sound like you work in recruitment for NJA... I hear part of it depends upon the fleet (Excel fleet is very busy - the workhorse I have heard) and whether you choose to fly more. I personally know a fifth year Excel Captain (in his fifth year total) who, with some overtime, is making more than $70K. That's a little bit more than $34K after 4 years that Gunfyter is quoting... He loves his job and the aircraft he flies - but he too is adament about the need for a pay increase.

Clearly salaries need to increase and I hope that a new contract can be worked out that is much more fair and reflects the hard work and professionalism of the NJA pilots out there.

 

[gunfyter]

You said Captain.... It will take about 5 years to make Captain so count on the SIC pay I posted 29 -34 K. SICs make very little OT. Come in with your Eyes open knowing the truth and reality of the situation.

Five years ago you could come in hired as a Captain off the street. This is NOT the situation any more. Plan on being an FO for years. There are nearly 2000 pilots ahead of you. I say You need another 1500 or so to come in behind you before you can upgrade. How long before another 1500 are hired at 300 a year?

Do the math. There are 360 airplanes on the property and you need maybe 3 PIC's per bird. Thats 1080 Captains... needed now... lets call it 1100. There are now 2000 total pilots on the property. You need 900 pilots who are senior to you to UPGRADE before its your turn!

Therefore at 3 PICs per plane you need another 300 airplanes to come to NJA before you can upgrade. At 60 airplanes per year it will take you 5 years to make Captain. 60 airplanes is not going to happen.

I think they plan on a fleet increase of maybe 30 planes this year. So about 100 new PIC's will be made. At that rate its going to take you 9 yrs to make Captain.

 

[Heavy Set]

You said Captain.... It will take about 5 years to make Captain so count on the SIC pay I posted 29 -34 K. SICs make very little OT. Come in with your Eyes open knowing the truth and reality of the situation.

Five years ago you could come in hired as a Captain off the street. This is NOT the situation any more. Plan on being an FO for years. There are nearly 2000 pilots ahead of you. I say You need another 1500 or so to come in behind you before you can upgrade. How long before another 1500 are hired at 300 a year?

Do the math. There are 360 airplanes on the property and you need maybe 3 PIC's per bird. Thats 1080 Captains... needed now... lets call it 1100. There are now 2000 total pilots on the property. You need 900 pilots who are senior to you to UPGRADE before its your turn!

Therefore at 3 PICs per plane you need another 300 airplanes to come to NJA before you can upgrade. At 60 airplanes per year it will take you 5 years to make Captain. 60 airplanes is not going to happen.

I think they plan on a fleet increase of maybe 30 planes this year. So about 100 new PIC's will be made. At that rate its going to take you 9 yrs to make Captain.

I've heard those stats too. One thing I do agree on is that anyone considering the frax side should come in with his/her eyes open - this is not just a replacement job for a furloughee - it is a different lifestyle and the responsibilities are very different. Don't jump in unless you think you would do well in the different environment.

I have heard that pilot attrition is increasing - probably due to the pay and the long wait for Capt. slots. Seems like JetBlue has been hiring quite a few from NJA lately...

 

[furlough-boy]

I'm just interested in how much a first year guy can expect to make at NetJets, Fligt Options, Shares, etc. Also what is the current upgrade time? No embellishment, just looking for the facts.

Thanks,

-PB

First year at CS you'll make a base of 35K and probably a little closer to 40K with a little overtime and bonus. Second year guys are all captains and are making close to 70K w/o trying too hard.

 

[Heavy Set]

First year at CS you'll make a base of 35K and probably a little closer to 40K with a little overtime and bonus. Second year guys are all captains and are making close to 70K w/o trying too hard.

So maybe you want to consider CS before NJA...

 

[Lequip]

I heard there was a new hire who was awarded captain by default so everybody on the seniority list above him/her could get captain pay. If this is true then isn't every pilot at NetJets with more than 6 months seniority getting captains pay? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[Grizz]

Last fall a 400XP bid came out. Through the efforts of a bunch of dedicated volunteers, phone calls were made to everyone on the seniority list asking that they bypass bidding on that particular upgrade so that the two most senior 400XP SICs could bid on it. We had a number of SICs drawing SIC pay that had been here almost two years and their seat locks were about to expire. Once they expired, the only way to get Captain's pay was to upgrade. The effort was successful and 118 pilots at NetJets were awarded Captain's pay.

It is doubtful that will happen again for a couple of reasons -

1) Part of the reason this was successful was because the top 20 to 30 pilots in that group had been hired during the time where the company was telling everyone at the interview that they would receive Captain's pay in 2-3 months. Guy made decisions to come to NetJets based on that promise. A promise that was broken. Pilots here knew those guys had gotten screwed.

2) It took an enormous amount of effort and goodwill on part of the pilot group to pull this off. Without the driving force behind it that I listed in 1) above, I don't think that it can be mounted again.

 

[Lequip]

Ok, so what is the most junior DOH for Ultra Captain at NetJets? If the award sent to the 2 most senior Ultra FO's then the Captain slots didn't go to some guys with just a few months did they?

 

[NJA Capt]

what is the most junior DOH for Ultra Captain at NetJets?

5/2002

If the award sent to the 2 most senior Ultra FO's then the Captain slots didn't go to some guys with just a few months did they?

I'm confused with the the wording here. PIC bids are send to everyone, not just the SICs. This is why people are moving "backwards" on the aircraft seniority lists. High # PICs are moving to smaller airframes.

The "bypass pay" bid was for the 400XP and went to two guys hired last July (#1837). They had been here 3 months.

The last 400XP PIC bid went between 780-1313 (10/2000-11/2001)
The last Ulra PIC PIC bid went between 885-1522 (2/2001-5/2002)
So realistic upgrade is currently 3+ years.

The Jan 05 seniority list shows 1990 pilots.

 

[PHX767]

My first year FLOPS W2 says,

SS wages $35,481