What are the projected retirements for SWA?

[General Lee]

Those aren't huge numbers but as a percentage of the company it's relatively the same as what DAL will be having. Percentage wise I think it's a little more. That is through 2020. After that I think DAL pulls ahead for the next ten.

When a top guy at Delta retires, there is a huge amount of movement. Think about it, a 777 Capt leaves, then a 767-400 Capt moves up to the 777, then a 767-300ER Captain moves up to the 767-400, then an 737-800 Captain moves up to the 767, then an A320 or Md90 Capt moves up to the 738, etc.... all the way from DC9 FO or MD88 FO----everyone moves up. It might be 15 movements for one retirement. Some years coming up have more than 700 retirements in one year, and many have 400-500. That is HUGE movement, and pay increases all around. If a guy moves from MD88FO to 767 FO, there could be a $20 an hour difference. And, if you stay on a narrowbody instead of moving up the ladder, you can make extra money by being senior and picking up greenslips for double pay. And regardless of your movement at SWA, you will always still have to fly through ELP, a major downer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[roughneck]

Upgrades will be longer than they ever have been at SWA. The stars are starting to align and the financials will work themselves out. Growth will return by late this year or early next but it won't be enough to override the 10 year FO.

10 year upgrades will be the norm, but a superior contract and an ever improving retirement strategy will insure that even the 10 year F/O at SWA has a far superior overall career at SWA over the alternatives at any other airline.

SWA growth will accelerate as the near international and South American markets are developed and mature. (10-15 years until full maturity)

Gary Kelley is no dummy. SWA will grow and we, the pilots, will flurish right along with it.

 

[roughneck]

General,

I may GET to fly through El Paso on occasion, but I make more than you doing it. Nanny Nanny BOO BOO!

 

[General Lee]

SD,

I would agree that SWA will not see the unprecedented type of new hire training that occurred in the the 90's and mid-'00's.

Our junior most CA and FOs have taken a triple whammy and the new non-normal has caused unprecedented stagnation compared to recent years. Their professionalism in dealing with this has been remarkable.

From listening to CM when he spoke to our training class I think the GO is getting financials in order and is optimistic that revenue streams are returning to levels that will allow measured growth in '11 and the following years. Near international flying will be in SWA's future as will be more cities like CHS and GSP in which mid-size cities that can generate 12-20 very full and profitable flights will begin to open up new opportunities. Not every new city will need to have the potential to fly 40-50 flights. Despite that BOS will expand a lot in the next 18 months most likely from the original 10 flights, 26 flights in Sept '10 and probably double that a year later (total of 2 more gates are avaiable above the 3 SWA will have by Sept '10). Unproductive intrastate CA flights are being moved to more profitable pairings....good for all SWA pilots.

Once Mexico and the Caribbean open up and mature, SWA will only wonder why they didn't do it sooner along with the success of other revenue streams that seem to be paying off adding to the bottom line which generates growth. Coupled with the turmoil in other labor groups/looming deadlines and other airlines continuing to hemorrage while pissing off their customers, more customers will drift to SWA....see this blog from a first time flyer that is occurring every day when first time flyers fly with us:

The Southwest Airlines experience through the eyes of a legacy elite flier

by Elizabeth Smith
As some of you may know, I am an experienced traveler who holds elite status on a legacy carrier. Last Thursday, June 3, I took my first flight on Southwest Airlines and I wanted to share my experience.

WN 220 RDU-MDW-AUS 6:55 pm-10:55 pm with a 30-minute stop in MDW

Actual: 8:30 pm -12:05 am due to weather/ground stops in the BWI/IAD/DCA area

Pre-boarding experience: The Southwest attitude and service was completely different than what I often experience on legacy airlines. Everyone I encountered was nice. The check-in agent said to me, “Now don’t get off the plane in MDW, stay on!” Very nice of her, even though I already knew.

There was no crowding around the gate area agents, even though we were delayed. Passengers seemed calm and stayed seated until it was their turn to get beside their boarding “pole position.”

Boarding: Boarding was very orderly. I was actually amazed. I watched it for a few of the flights. It is as if Southwest passengers are trained. When the planes came in and people deplaned, A boarding position passengers stood up and stood by their “pole position” and were just chatting amongst each other. There was no rudeness or impatience. Then like clockwork, the agents started boarding with positions A1-15, Business Select and A List, and as boarding passes were scanned, the computer made the famous ding sound each time.

Passengers: Most were businesspeople and what I would call “Southwest pros.” Passengers knew exactly how everything worked and what to expect.

Seating: I pre-paid Early Bird Check-in for $10 and had boarding position A26. I selected the “quasi” exit row aisle, 11D, two-seat side, on the RDU-MDW segment of the trip. I stayed on the plane in MDW since I was continuing on, so I was able to select the real exit row aisle, 11C, on the second segment.

In-flight service: The in-flight service was the best I’ve ever seen. There were three flight attendants for the cabin and they served the cabin in thirds. Each walked down their section with their handheld devices for purchases and a notepad taking drink orders.

They hand-carried the drinks to passengers using drink trays. After serving drinks, they passed through the aisle with the snack baskets. On my first flight, my flight attendant comped our adult beverages due to the delay. On both flights, the flight attendants passed out two snacks per passenger – peanuts, pretzels, and Nabisco Cheese Nips (100-calorie package.)

There were no beverage or food carts. When we landed in MDW, one other passenger and I were the only ones continuing to AUS, so we saw how they turned the plane in about 15 minutes. The flight attendants scurried through the cabin, picking up trash, arranging the seat belts, putting up tray tables, and turning off lights. Catering and service workers came aboard and catered the plane with snacks and drinks and cleaned/serviced the lavs. It was amazing to see how quickly they prepared the cabin for the next round of passengers. It reminded me of a NASCAR pit stop. Then the pilot gave the go-ahead to start boarding.

Grade = A+, despite the weather delay. Now I understand why so many travelers love Southwest.
​

What does this lovey dovey stuff have to do with pilot retirement numbers? Chase consistantly diverts the issues to customer satisfaction, which is subjective. How many SWA passengers think of SWA as a "Cattle Car?" Plenty. Reading this snippet from Chase doesn't accurately portray what would happen on most legacy airline flights that are over 2 or 3 hours. A first Class service is a lot different than a "fast and efficient" SWA service on an hour flight. If you got "fast and efficient" on a transcon, you would be castigated to no end.

How many Elite passengers were happy with my last flight from DUS to ATL? A lot. I got them to ATL on time, in a comfortable fashion, and all seemed happy as I said goodbye in person. At the same time, I had a FANTASTIC ice cream sundae over Greenland watching the glaciers below. I not only had caramel, but also fudge and strawberry sauce on my sundae. It was really great. So, how was El Paso and the Pizza Hut Personal Supreme Pizza again????

So, again, how do the SWA numbers compare to Delta retirement numbers, and can we see if Chase diverts the subject AGAIN...... Hey, let's see if he throws an article out about free bags........????


Bye Bye--General Lee


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

I may GET to fly through El Paso on occasion, but I make more than you doing it. Nanny Nanny BOO BOO!

How do you know that?? Really? I already have 1 greenslip this month ( a 3 day worth in total of 39 hours), topped on my normal 4 European Crossings. I think I probably make a lot more than you do. And, I get ice cream sundaes enroute! Enjoy your peanuts while they last!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bizicmo]

How do you know that?? Really? I already have 1 greenslip this month ( a 3 day worth in total of 39 hours), topped on my normal 4 European Crossings. I think I probably make a lot more than you do. And, I get ice cream sundaes enroute! Enjoy your peanuts while they last!


Bye Bye--General Lee

general, i love you but i lose all faith when you brag about crappy airline food. it might be good for airline food but it still is overall crappy

 

[General Lee]

Upgrades will be longer than they ever have been at SWA. The stars are starting to align and the financials will work themselves out. Growth will return by late this year or early next but it won't be enough to override the 10 year FO.

10 year upgrades will be the norm, but a superior contract and an ever improving retirement strategy will insure that even the 10 year F/O at SWA has a far superior overall career at SWA over the alternatives at any other airline.

SWA growth will accelerate as the near international and South American markets are developed and mature. (10-15 years until full maturity)

Gary Kelley is no dummy. SWA will grow and we, the pilots, will flurish right along with it.

An ever improving retirement strategy??? Your guys were the leaders in the age 65 change. They probably want to go to 70. Talk about greedy, and they got stock and you didn't way back when too.

Your INTL flights will mature when again?? Say what? Your perfect company culture will come falling down the second Kelly decides he HAS to merge with someone. You won't be able to do a "Frontier" maneuver (make them take a staple or ELSE.....), and the mixing of your list will take away your unity. But, you will still have MAF and ISP.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

general, i love you but i lose all faith when you brag about crappy airline food. it might be good for airline food but it still is overall crappy

You haven't had Business Elite food recently, have you? I never buy my own food prior to leaving, which says something. I don't know much about the coach food, but the business class food is darn good, with multiple coarses and a choice of desserts (like my sundae). And, it is FREE for crewmembers..... We also do some domestic trips in our category and that means I have done a couple recently. The food domestically wasn't bad. The 1st Class stuff was pretty good (not as good as INTL), and the coach passengers are normally offered food for sale on longer flights, which had some good selections too. Better than the SWA pretzels and peanuts.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[satpak77]

you gotta admit the General does keep this board interesting

 

[redflyer65]

When a top guy at Delta retires, there is a huge amount of movement. Think about it, a 777 Capt leaves, then a 767-400 Capt moves up to the 777, then a 767-300ER Captain moves up to the 767-400, then an 737-800 Captain moves up to the 767, then an A320 or Md90 Capt moves up to the 738, etc.... all the way from DC9 FO or MD88 FO----everyone moves up. It might be 15 movements for one retirement. Some years coming up have more than 700 retirements in one year, and many have 400-500. That is HUGE movement, and pay increases all around. If a guy moves from MD88FO to 767 FO, there could be a $20 an hour difference. And, if you stay on a narrowbody instead of moving up the ladder, you can make extra money by being senior and picking up greenslips for double pay. And regardless of your movement at SWA, you will always still have to fly through ELP, a major downer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, what's so funny is that you are thrilled that your company is wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars by having to PAY FOR 15 training events....absolutely amazing. You don't get it.

I'm glad you were able to score a green slip, in the meantime we can drop or pickup as much as we desire. We have some guys that go after it for 130+ trips a month, at more than your hourly rate. To each their own, but we have those options each and every month.

You braging about one green slip trip really falls short, sorry.