What a Crock!!!

[Big Duke Six]

Yes, we're all sympathetic to the employees: it is the corporate culture of UAL that needs to disappear. It's a sick, distorted twisted company that needs to go before the disease spreads. That's what pi$$es me off so much about the employees there: This is unlike any bankruptcy in the past, and the implications of UAL's abuse of the system will affect the entire country in time. But they don't see it that way, they can't see past themselves.

 

[twobits]

right on big duke six..... every one on this board will be paying for United's irrational pension plan. I can see the taxpayers of the US paying for pensions of a dissolved company but not for one that continues to operate!! This is crazy. I am subsidizing companies that compete against mine through the ATSB and the Pension benefit guarantee corp. Ok, the ATSB was a good idea in theory, but not how it has played out in US air's hand. I mean, there have been so many covenants of the loan guarantee allowed to be disregarded. Competition is good, not selective socialism by the US gov't.

 

[cfm56-7b]

Kiss my a$$
US Airways has survived enough challanges and shoulderedenough pain to have earned the right to hang around and kick your a$$. [/QUOTE]

It was called TWA=USA air 2006 you are a fool work hard and give back money kick that a$$

 

[D-Bo]

WILL UNITED AND USAIR JUST FUKKING DIE ALREADY?????

UAL is a lot further from death than you think. They aren't going anywhere. Take a look at their court filings. They keep posting paper losses but take a look at their cash balance.

D-Bo

 

[TheDonger]

It was called TWA=USA air 2006 you are a fool work hard and give back money kick that a$$

That's pathetic.

 

[Big Duke Six]

QUOTE:
UAL is a lot further from death than you think. They aren't going anywhere. Take a look at their court filings. They keep posting paper losses but take a look at their cash balance.

D-BoToday 06:42


Precisely.

Abusing the system a little, don't you think? I know two people who work there (one a pilot, the other a CSR) and BOTH of them have independently regaled me with stories about how UAL is staying in bankruptcy ABSOLUTELY AS LONG AS THEY CAN, just to put pressure on their competitors. They will stay in BK until FORCED to come out. This, while running predatory prices and not paying your bills hardly "commands respect in the industry" as that article above stated.

 

[AZ Typed]

Do you buy on: Continental (2), America West or USAir? Or do you have a particular hard on for UAL?
QUOTE]

Yes, I just bought 3 tickets on AWA, and one on AA - they pay their bills you see....that's the difference, well one of the differences. At AWA you'll get a smile, too. I have little respect for people or companies that continue to waste money while sucking it out of the honest folks & taxpayers via. bankruptcy. You should, too. Again - I don't want to see them on the street, but I do want to see a balanced playing field here.

AZT

 

[furlough-boy]

QUOTE:
I know two people who work there (one a pilot, the other a CSR) and BOTH of them have independently regaled me with stories about how UAL is staying in bankruptcy ABSOLUTELY AS LONG AS THEY CAN, just to put pressure on their competitors. .

I heard from a baggage handlers pool-boy that UAL is going to announce a huge A380 soon. Must be true

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Do you buy on: Continental (2), America West or USAir? Or do you have a particular hard on for UAL?
QUOTE]

Yes, I just bought 3 tickets on AWA, and one on AA - they pay their bills you see....that's the difference, well one of the differences. At AWA you'll get a smile, too. I have little respect for people or companies that continue to waste money while sucking it out of the honest folks & taxpayers via. bankruptcy. You should, too. Again - I don't want to see them on the street, but I do want to see a balanced playing field here.

AZT

Did you remember that America West was in bankruptcy from 1991 through 1994?

GP

 

[D-Bo]

QUOTE:
UAL is a lot further from death than you think. They aren't going anywhere. Take a look at their court filings. They keep posting paper losses but take a look at their cash balance.

D-BoToday 06:42


Precisely.

Abusing the system a little, don't you think? I know two people who work there (one a pilot, the other a CSR) and BOTH of them have independently regaled me with stories about how UAL is staying in bankruptcy ABSOLUTELY AS LONG AS THEY CAN, just to put pressure on their competitors. They will stay in BK until FORCED to come out. This, while running predatory prices and not paying your bills hardly "commands respect in the industry" as that article above stated.

Working the system yes. They screwed over damn near every employee but they did it within the boundrues of BK law. It's the law that needs to be changed/is changing. It doesn't make sense for them to come out of bankruptcy right now. Not if your in managements shoes. If they aren't forced out then why should they come out? They are taking full advantage of it but the blame should go towards the BK policy. Any CEO that would come out before they absolutely have to would probably deserve to lose their job. UAL has been in there for a while but there have been other airlines in the past to stay in BK even longer. UAL isn't setting any kind of precedent here as far as how long they're staying in.

D-Bo

 

[D-Bo]

Yes, I just bought 3 tickets on AWA, and one on AA - they pay their bills you see....that's the difference, well one of the differences. At AWA you'll get a smile, too. I have little respect for people or companies that continue to waste money while sucking it out of the honest folks & taxpayers via. bankruptcy. You should, too. Again - I don't want to see them on the street, but I do want to see a balanced playing field here.

AZT

You must be another one of those folks who thinks Bankruptcy is some new phenomenon. Is this all new to you? I'm not happy about the whole situation of whats going on in this industry but this is how the game is played. It's been played over and over again.

D-Bo

 

[GuppyPuppy]

right on big duke six..... every one on this board will be paying for United's irrational pension plan. I can see the taxpayers of the US paying for pensions of a dissolved company but not for one that continues to operate!! This is crazy. I am subsidizing companies that compete against mine through the ATSB and the Pension benefit guarantee corp. Ok, the ATSB was a good idea in theory, but not how it has played out in US air's hand. I mean, there have been so many covenants of the loan guarantee allowed to be disregarded. Competition is good, not selective socialism by the US gov't.

That has not happened in the UAL case.

How do you feel about Frontier getting subsidies from the US government to fly from DEN to FAT (Fresno)? This is a case of YOUR tax dollars going DIRECTLY to the Frontier Airlines bottom line. Fresno is NOT on the essential air service list. Frontier is benefitting from a bill introduced to ensure "low fare" competition at the expense of the US taxpayer.

Please respond.

GP

 

[FlyinScotsman]

I heard from a baggage handlers pool-boy that UAL is going to announce a huge A380 soon. Must be true

The baggage handlers have POOLS! I knew I was wasting time learning how to fly! I should have become a bag thrower for UAL thats where the real money is!

 

[Big Duke Six]

We go to Fresno? Not yet.


But, we will start there Aug 31. And we're getting gov't money for it? Where did you get your info? Whose "bill" are you talking about? I must have missed that.

As for my reaction to it, it's not any worse than UAL running predatory fares knowing full well they don't actually have to cover the cost of the trip. Everyone else does though, see. Example: $58 R/T to Reno last summer? Example: I had a guy on one of my flights last week who told me he flew R/T DEN/ATL for $98 (R/T!!) on United. All while hiding in bankruptcy. Yeah, that's fair. At least frigging ACT like you're trying to do the right thing.

 

[crashpad]

How do you feel about Frontier getting subsidies from the US government to fly from DEN to FAT (Fresno)? This is a case of YOUR tax dollars going DIRECTLY to the Frontier Airlines bottom line.
GP

FAT is soliciting for competitive service like any other airport and providing incentives to airlines to discourage monopolizing, price gouging practices (they also want better service).

Stop your whining and start paying your bills. Stop putting planes on the A concourse in DEN just to spite Frontier.

You are a burden to the productivity of this industry, and to the tax payers.

Ual has been tried, weighed and found unwanted.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

We go to Fresno? Not yet.


But, we will start there Aug 31. And we're getting gov't money for it? Where did you get your info? Whose "bill" are you talking about? I must have missed that.

As for my reaction to it, it's not any worse than UAL running predatory fares knowing full well they don't actually have to cover the cost of the trip. Everyone else does though, see. Example: $58 R/T to Reno last summer? Example: I had a guy on one of my flights last week who told me he flew R/T DEN/ATL for $98 (R/T!!) on United. All while hiding in bankruptcy. Yeah, that's fair. At least frigging ACT like you're trying to do the right thing.

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]By Valerie McLain
Staff Writer
[email protected][/font]

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]The Business Journal — Fresno officials have a federal grant to thank for bringing Fresno its first low fare air carrier in years.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Frontier Airlines will begin flying two nonstop flights from Fresno Yosemite International Airport to Denver in late August. The new contract is all part of a $1.1 million grant from the Department of Transportation designed to bring air carriers to small communities. The money will be used as a revenue guarantee and for publicity as Frontier begins serving the Fresno market.[/font]


This information is also listed on the Frontier airlines website under "press releases".

Fresno a small community? Hardly. Last time I was through the official population was nearly 400,000 people.

Do you really believe that the $58 RNO and $98 ATL trips applied to every seat on the airplane? What about Frontier offering $99 trips between FAT and DEN? Does that fare actually cover the cost of flying a 70 seat RJ for a two hour trip?

GP

 

[Clyde]

Ok for all those cry baby whiners out there, you knew what you are getting into. Everyone knows how this career field is, if you can't take it, go elsewhere, i was trying to make a light situation out of a serious one, but then you proceeded to piss me off. If you guys don't like getting furloghed, having pensions cut and the like then either quit and find a new career or strike and try to do something about it. Quit crying like a bunch of babies, sell your hundred thousand dollar boats and your house in the keys and try and live like the rest of america. You guys still make so much more than the average american. You think I am sitting here giving a crap that you are pulling down 200k a year and still can't pay the bills? No, it's called life in this career. Yes it is sad it has to happen, but if you all can't sit back and make light of a horrible situation once in awhile you are going to have a crappy rest of your life. You guys make me sick

This is a good example of why the bar is continually being lowered. Idratherfly4283, I'm not flaming you or trying to insult you, but I am just pointing out the obvious here.

You said:

"You guys still make so much more than the average american. You think I am sitting here giving a crap that you are pulling down 200k a year and still can't pay the bills?"

The average pilot typically is far more educated and skilled than the average American. The average pilot has more responsibility than the average American. The average pilot is away from home more than the average American. This is not just an "average job", otherwise every average American would be flocking to it.

Because this is not your average job and a pilot has sacrificed a lot more than the aveage American, he/she has EARNED and DESERVES a higher-than-average salary.

You say you don't give a crap about pilots pulling down $200K a year and still can't pay the bills. Maybe you should offer to teach courses on personal finance. Or, more realistically, you should really stop posting uneducated phrases and making a fool out of yourself.

"Everyone knows how this career field is, if you can't take it, go elsewhere, i was trying to make a light situation out of a serious one, but then you proceeded to piss me off."

You are correct, everyone who is in this profession knows how tough this career field is. Those that are here have chosen it's challenges with the hope of being rewarded. An even greater majority have viewed the challenges and decided to choose another career before taking their first flight lesson, thus becoming an "average American" and earning an "average wage."


"Quit crying like a bunch of babies, sell your hundred thousand dollar boats and your house in the keys and try and live like the rest of america."

And how does the rest of America live? I don't know about you, but I know a lot of pilots at various major airlines, including mine, and I have yet to meet one who owns a $100K boat and a house in the keys. Most, including myself, own a modest home in a nice part of town, drive an older car, and live below our means. The last time I checked, the "rest of America" was in serious debt, filing personal bankruptcies, and was trying to live way ABOVE their means. Again, you have managed to make a very uneducated, stupid statement. Who do you know that owns a $100K boat and has a house in the keys? Or, did you happen to hear another CFI at your flight school just mention that as a cliche??

"No, it's called life in this career."

Judging by your tone, attitude, and demeanor in your above post, I don't believe you have enough experience to even guess what life in this career is all about. I would venture to guess that your only exposure in this career field so far is the 500TT you have logged so far in the practice area and in the traffic pattern.

"If you guys don't like getting furloghed, having pensions cut and the like then either quit and find a new career or strike and try to do something about it."

So, after managing to insult and otherwise ridicule ALL professional pilots out there, you are now offering some advice on what people with 100 times your experience level should do. Maybe you should offer to teach a seminar on this.

IN CLOSING:

You, my friend, are one of the many people responsible for the lowering of standards in this industry. When times were good, you probably hung posters of Boeing's and Airbuses next to your Brittany Spears poster hoping and dreaming of that big airline career, including the big salaries that come with it. Times are bad right now, but you think $200K/yr is too much money, especially since you don't make that amount. So, as the bar gets lowered, so do your standards. Is $100K/yr a justified amount for you to pay a B-777 Captain? To you it probably is, since it's a lot more than you are probably making right now. I guarantee that $100K/yr is not going to be a lot of money 20 years from now. But, you'll figure it out by then, because you are one who will sign a 20-year contract and sell your soul just to "fly a jet".

And before you compare pilot salaries to those of the "average American", why don't you also compare education requirements and dues that have to be paid as well.

 

[D-Bo]

Most of you guys are wasting a &^%$ load of energy for absolutely nothing. This is the aviation industry for crying out loud. Bankruptcy, subsidized routes, predatory pricing, and forking over employees is nothing new. Most of us have subsidized our current or previous airline personally through one contract or side letter at least once. If your company hasn't tried to fork over any of it's employees it's only because they haven't been in business long enough. They will eventually. That is the business.

I stooped getting mad at another airline as a whole for what their management does. We barely have control over what management at our own airlines do. UAL isn't the first airline to ditch pensions and the aviation isn't the first industry to have major players dump pensions. Quit taking what another airlines management does personally. It's not personal. It's business. It sucks. This whole industry sucks. No need to waste steam over things you have no control over. Your very lucky and one of the few if your airlines management cares about you. It's not the norm. You expect management at another airline gives a got ^%$# damn about you? Again.....that's the business.

For the many that act like they know exactly what bills are being paid and which bills aren't being paid, beside the pension, at UAL let me know. I would love to know. C11 doesn't pardon you from all bills. I'm not a proponent of what they are doing at all but I don't think some of you know everything that you're talking about. As far as the taxpayers dollars are concerned, we have not paid anything yet. UAL gave the pbgc over 1 billion dollars of the funds that UAL pilots earned. That is the money that is being paid out at a lower rate now. They also didn't get the ATSB loan so we didn't give them any money there either. Anyway....If you just can't let it go and think UAL is doing something illegal that you can prove.......sue them or have your airline sue them.


D-Bo

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Hey twobits...


What say you?

GP

 

[thruthemurk]

You do recall of course that America West was in bankruptcy itself for several years just ten years ago, and that Continental managed two trips through the bankruptcy courts. Both defaulted on hundreds of millions in loans, and were considered the worst airlines in the business at various times in their existence.

I say this to bash neither airline, but to point out the inconsistency of your "stance". The idea that these vast corporate entities have some character that is a collective reflection of the 100,000 employees that work there is nothing short of ridiculous. Their fortunes rise and fall with the carpetbaggers that pass through upper management - and with the skills of the accountants and lawyers to manipulate the laws of the day to best advantage.

Just to clarify - you are buying tickets on these airlines because they "pay their bills" ? OK.

murk