Wham! Help! Landings stink!

[gump88]

Hawg,

In my 19 years of experience what I said is true. But Im sure that you can land your A10 just fine. Lets see.....2500 hours????huh???

LMFAO
gump

 

[TurboS7]

All I can add after all of the above, you have to get your "butt hairs" trained and fine tuned. That takes time so be patient, the secret is to have the wheels no going up and not going down at the precise instant the wheel touch mother earth. Then of course you have to keep them there. Enjoy the process. Happy flying.

 

[WXGuy]

Thanks!

Thanks a bunch for all the replies. I've got another lesson today, and I'll keep your advice in mind. It even looks like the winds are going to cooperate today, so I won't be fighting a 10kt crosswind . I'll let you know how it goes. Let's roll!

 

[Timebuilder]

Okay. The secret to consistently good landings is consistency, and by that I mean a STABILIZED approach.

Fly the pattern the same way each time. Although my students fly Skyhawks, most of this will apply to you. If you are flying a Cherokee 140, or a 160 or 180, which all have a shorter wing, you may have to hold some power in at the beginning of the flare. The 140 is a notorious hard lander, and the extra power will help keep the mains from coming up through the wings.

Abeam the numbers, apply carb heat, reduce throttle to 1700 (in the Cherokee, 15 or 1600), and in a Skyhawk, apply the first notch of flaps at or below 110kts. Slow to the white arc for the Pipers. Descend at about 400fpm straight ahead until you are just before the 45-degree point to the runway, and maintain the 400 fpm limit until you roll out on base. This will give you the correct speed for deploying the second notch of flaps, just about 5 kts into the white arc. Now you can vary power and rate of descent as necessary to to adjust altitude and airspeed.

Correct your altitude for final approach while you are still on base. In other words, look ahead and ask yourself if your altitude is correct, and if not, make small corrections SOONER instead of large corrections LATER. I like to see my C172 students at about 70 knots at this point, and this should work for you, too.

KEEP THE BALL IN THE MIDDLE DURING THE BASE TO FINAL TURN.

Now you've turned from base to final. You already have two notches of flaps set, and you are monitoring your airspeed to be certain that you don't exceed flap range (the white arc).
You need to be flying towards an AIM POINT on the runway. This is a reference point, such as the second dash, or white line, after the numbers. Notice where that aim point appears on the windshield. If the aim point rises or falls in the windshield, you need to adjust to put the aim point back on the spot where it belongs.

Now you are flying along a STRAIGHT LINE from your base turn all the way down to your aim point. When you have the runway "made", meaning you would have no trouble reaching the runway if the engine were to quit, you can deploy your last notch of flaps (don't use 40 degrees of flaps on those old skyhawks, stick with 30 degrees) and lower the nose a few more degrees, since that last notch of flaps will change your angle a little.

As you pass over the runway threshold, pull your power to idle to a count of three. When you do this, the nose will try to fall. Don't let it. Increase your backpressure and keep flying right down to the aim point. As you get close to the aim point, raise the nose SLIGHTLY, as the aim point passes beneath the airplane.

Now, imagine that the airplane has no nose wheel (assuming you are in a tricycle gear airplane) and you must keep the nose off of the runway to keep the prop away from the asphalt.

That little bump you feel is the mains touching down quietly, followed by the nose wheel a second or two later.

If you have any more trouble, send me a private.

 

[mattjenna]

Maybe you'd be better off changing your username to CFIguru than timebuilder? Perhaps a better reflection of your position?

 

[hawgdriver]

Hawg,

In my 19 years of experience what I said is true. But Im sure that you can land your A10 just fine. Lets see.....2500 hours????huh???

LMFAO
gump

Forest,

Well, I can say my measly 2500 hours are "flown" and not twittling thumbs waiting to turn the next knob!

Just playinwitchya man, no sparring here, I save that for Mark!

 

[mattjenna]

Yeah-don't get into the I've got more hours than you tongue out cr@p. Plenty of incomp. high hour pilots and comp. lower hour pilots.

No doubt you're both high calibre professionals.

 

[gump88]

WxGuy,

One more thought about the "looking at the far end of the runway" theory. The next time you are driving your car, pay attention to the distance you are looking ahead. That is about the right distance you should be looking ahead of the aircraft during landing. Of course your eyes will be constantly scanning and not "starring" at any one point but the majority of your attention should be at the above mentioned distance. Focussing your eyes to the far end of the runway will cause a late flare or no flare at all and possibly a nose first landing----not a good thing. Of course I am assuming that airspeed and configuration are correct and the approach is stable.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

gump

 

[empenage]

WXGuy:

The above posts are very good and you should try them. Remember as you slow down to your approach speed the airflow over the wings will also slow down requiring more control input to keep the aircraft where "you" want it. Don't let the airplane fly you around. It takes allot of concentration to keep the aircraft a foot above the runway so don't let it move around. Keep it where you want it! The 140 will float (that big fat wing in ground effect) a little before it stalls and remember it wont land untill it stalls. Ahh...timing. Stick with it. Don't rush the landing. If you can get consistantly smooth landings you will be able to do the same thing with a Citation.

P.S. Don't forget what your feet are for.

 

[puddlejumper]

Here are a couple things that seem to have helped my students in the past: Once you've got your stabilized approach happening with your aim point staying steady in the windshield and your power set, let go of the yoke. The point here is that if the airplane is not trimmed properly, you'll find that you're constantly fighting with the controls. Trim it out and let the stability and inertia of the airplane help you.

Secondly, keep in mind the grip you have on the yoke. I used to joke with my students that they would be strangling the yoke and the reflection of their white knuckles off the instruments was blinding me. The airplane's feedback to you as the pilot is a very important part of making a nice landing. With proper trimming and a light touch, the flare and touchdown can be a pleasantly consistent thing.

By the way, I've only got a few hours in Citations, but I don't believe that jets are full-stalled at touchdown. I know for sure that King Airs are not. It would be very disconcerting to get a stick-shaker or even pusher when you're about to land. I may be wrong on that though.

Good luck and keep practicing.