"We're the highest-paid narrow-body (jet) pilots in the free world," he said...

[(HCDAW)]

And Dumb Pilot is correct, our social services are FAR under-par compared to the rest of the world's industrialized nations and THEIR citizens know it. When's the last time you heard of a German, Dutch, or Scandinavian citizen sneaking across the border to work here in the U.S. illegally?

Well, I've got to ask you the same question. If Europe's social programs are so great how come Americans aren't sneaking over the borders to work there?

You may pay a lot in taxes (50-60%) but their pay is higher to begin with AND they don't have to pay medical insurance (government-provided) every month out of THEIR OWN money. I'd be more interested in seeing how many days off and how much vacation a KLM guy gets starting at year 1 compared to Southwest.

So those taxes...that 50-60%, I guess that wasn't out of their own pocket? By the way what you are referring to is known as Socialism. Taking money from the productive members of society and redistributing it. The only people that aren't paying for medical care with THEIR OWN money in this program are the ones who don't work. It would take way too much time to explain why socialized medicine is a bad thing and leads to worse care for all involved, but make no mistake about it, big government social programs are bad. Just look at what a great job the federal government has done managing your money so far, and you want to give more to them?

By the way, those tax dollars you pay on your income right now just about cover the interest on the national debt. That's right, they don't even pay for any of the awesome government programs we enjoy right now. The only way to save this country and provide the job stability that we all want is to vote the crooks out of Washington. Once we get some honest people in control of Congress, we can pay off some of the debt we have and stabilize our economy. Please don't vote for more government spending and programs. I am not trying to stomp on your opinion here, I just think it's important to think about the implications of such programs.

 

[dtfl]

Well, it's a bad example of a "non-free-world" country paying more, as yes, both of those countries are free, but what it DOES do is prove the point that Southwest pilot ARE NOT the highest-paid narrow-body pilots in the free world, although they're close.

And Dumb Pilot is correct, our social services are FAR under-par compared to the rest of the world's industrialized nations and THEIR citizens know it. When's the last time you heard of a German, Dutch, or Scandinavian citizen sneaking across the border to work here in the U.S. illegally?

You may pay a lot in taxes (50-60%) but their pay is higher to begin with AND they don't have to pay medical insurance (government-provided) every month out of THEIR OWN money. I'd be more interested in seeing how many days off and how much vacation a KLM guy gets starting at year 1 compared to Southwest.

Not that we could go to work there, but it might put it in perspective. Southwest is a great career choice for U.S. citizens and, even if the pay rates only come up for COLA, it would STILL be one of the best-compensated pilot positions in the country.

And none of the US citizens care or sympathise with us - they think we are overpaid richers living in million dollar homes..and that pisses them off. ALTHOUGH it is ok for their idol Paris Hilton to live that way.....I love this country, and fight for it...but would also love the right to ask many Americans "What did the 5 fingers say to the face??........"

 

[GogglesPisano]

Intersting reads ...

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/05/jama_english_he.html

http://www.reason.com/news/show/34979.html

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8271

 

[Lear70]

Well, I've got to ask you the same question. If Europe's social programs are so great how come Americans aren't sneaking over the borders to work there?

Well, primarily, because they'd deport your butt on the spot if you were there working illegally.

Second, because no one will hire you without proof of citizenship, unlike here in the U.S. where many hire the cheapest person, few (or no) questions asked.

Thirdly, because most U.S. citizens don't know the first thing about anyone outside the U.S. Most U.S. citizens are narcissistic, self-serving, and could give a d*mn about the rest of the world.

Personally, if I could get a job at Qantas, I'd move to Australia and visit the U.S. once every few years. The people are nicer, the diving is better, and the surfing is unbelievable!

So those taxes...that 50-60%, I guess that wasn't out of their own pocket? By the way what you are referring to is known as Socialism. Taking money from the productive members of society and redistributing it. The only people that aren't paying for medical care with THEIR OWN money in this program are the ones who don't work. It would take way too much time to explain why socialized medicine is a bad thing and leads to worse care for all involved, but make no mistake about it, big government social programs are bad. Just look at what a great job the federal government has done managing your money so far, and you want to give more to them?

I didn't say I wanted to pay more in taxes, I simply said their taxes pay for many things they can actually SEE and USE. As far as I can tell, mine don't...

You're right about government spending. Personally, I think this country's too far gone to save. It's going to implode, possibly not in our lifetime, but it's well on its way...

 

[curtis46]

the taxes are higher in the european countries but their kids receive free college education;as someone said they see where their money go

 

[Benhuntn]

Hey dumb if you think there is one country in Europe where their pilots are better off than ours regardless of how much they make and you would like move and join them PM me and I will start a fund drive to move you over there.

 

[Juan Tugo]

But back to Southwest Airlines...

 

[(HCDAW)]

Personally, if I could get a job at Qantas, I'd move to Australia and visit the U.S. once every few years. The people are nicer, the diving is better, and the surfing is unbelievable!

You're right about government spending. Personally, I think this country's too far gone to save. It's going to implode, possibly not in our lifetime, but it's well on its way...

I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.

- Thomas Paine 1776

No one ever said being a citizen would be easy and we welcome all kinds in this country, but if your ready to give up...

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/telephoneSales#jump2

Like the man said back to the important stuff, like Southwest

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Hey dumb if you think there is one country in Europe where their pilots are better off than ours regardless of how much they make and you would like move and join them PM me and I will start a fund drive to move you over there.

Sounds like you are still pissed because I told you that SWA was PFT, hum?:laugh:

 

[Lear70]

No one ever said being a citizen would be easy and we welcome all kinds in this country, but if your ready to give up...

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/telephoneSales#jump2

Like the man said back to the important stuff, like Southwest

Cute... "Sarcasm is the resort of the feeble mind..." Author Unknown.

Right back atcha!

And yes, back to Southwest, still the "Golden Ring" for many aviators.

 

[Allen1]

Well, it's a bad example of a "non-free-world" country paying more, as yes, both of those countries are free, but what it DOES do is prove the point that Southwest pilot ARE NOT the highest-paid narrow-body pilots in the free world, although they're close.

And Dumb Pilot is correct, our social services are FAR under-par compared to the rest of the world's industrialized nations and THEIR citizens know it. When's the last time you heard of a German, Dutch, or Scandinavian citizen sneaking across the border to work here in the U.S. illegally?

You may pay a lot in taxes (50-60%) but their pay is higher to begin with AND they don't have to pay medical insurance (government-provided) every month out of THEIR OWN money. I'd be more interested in seeing how many days off and how much vacation a KLM guy gets starting at year 1 compared to Southwest.

Not that we could go to work there, but it might put it in perspective. Southwest is a great career choice for U.S. citizens and, even if the pay rates only come up for COLA, it would STILL be one of the best-compensated pilot positions in the country.

My health care benefits are quite good and not one dime comes out of my paycheck. Don't need to live in Europe to get this, you cand still get it right here in the USA.

 

[Lear70]

My health care benefits are quite good and not one dime comes out of my paycheck. Don't need to live in Europe to get this, you cand still get it right here in the USA.

Must be nice. I've never worked at any airline or charter company where your health bennies were completely covered.

The best was, surprisingly, at my last regional, Pinnacle, where family coverage was $60 per paycheck, or $120 a month. Here at AAI it's between $250 and 400 a month, depending on which plan you're in.

Good for you if you have free healthcare, but it's the exception, not the norm.

 

[Benhuntn]

Hey dumb I don't care if SWA if PFT or not. I didn't pay for my type you did......I had 100% GI bill! By the way thanks for paying. This is the best job I have ever had. And as for all those losers that paid for their type to get to SWA, well I haven't met one yet. For some reason all the guys I fly with are happy and enjoying life. I am sure not paying for training and having daddy do it makes it much more meaningful and fulfilling and I am glad it worked for you. I am sure you will do the same when you grow up.

 

[XR650R]

Being the highest paid pilots is like taking point in a three man patrol in the jungles of Viet Nam or flying just one last daylight sorte or Germany in a B-17. I hope someone steps up to the plate and exceeds us by a few percentage points. God knows you all deserve it and it I believe it would take some of the heat off us.

 

[Bjammin]

And as for all those losers that paid for their type to get to SWA, well I haven't met one yet.

Wow. I paid for my type so I could have options, does that make me a loser?

SWA was not my first choice, but I wanted to make sure I could provide for my family with the only skills I have in the only job I enjoy, except maybe powerboat racing.

I would have worked for SWA gladly, but I know I'm much happier where I am now.

I think it was extreamly important to keep all options on the table in a business as fickle as ours. Want a sure thing? Apply at at Disney World.

 

[Flyby1206]

If I remember correctly, United and Delta were fighting for the 'highest paid' title about 10yrs ago... We know how that worked out.

 

[Benhuntn]

I am not anti PFT I was making fun of "dim," I mean dumb pilot who thinks bettering yourself is some kind of evil.

 

[canyonblue]

"We're the highest-paid narrow-body (jet) pilots in the free world," he said. "I wish we could beat our chests and say SWAPA did that, but it's only because events ... brought everyone else down below us."

SWAPA UNION LEADER

It should be pointed out that SWA did not ever make us the highest paid hourly pilots, everyone else's paycuts did. If every other pilot group out there does not exceed SWA payrates, then I can't understand their negotiating playbook.

 

[tomgoodman]

Negotiate all that you can, as soon as you can

If I remember correctly, United and Delta were fighting for the 'highest paid' title about 10yrs ago... We know how that worked out.

It worked out quite well, given that those companies would have declared bankruptcy anyway, for reasons unrelated to pilot compensation. Had pilots been paid less, the "savings" would have simply been frittered away in fare wars and executive bonuses, which is what this industry always does with employee concessions. At least pilots had a few more years of good wages to build their own savings, and most were wise enough to do so.

 

[jonjuan]

If I remember correctly, United and Delta were fighting for the 'highest paid' title about 10yrs ago... We know how that worked out.

Bill Gates was the richest guy in the world about ten years ago....We know that he still is.....