Wellstone King Air Info!!

[beytzim]

I just saw Greg Feith at the airport (former NTSB lead investigator) and asked him about the Wellstone King Air.

He said, "on approach, the King Air A100 slowed to 85 knots and was full of ice. It stalled, simple as that."

Well, there you go.

 

[irapilot]

"Well, there you go." What does that mean?

As the Brits say - "it would not be helpful at this time, without all the facts, to make any statements as to the cause of this accident."

It would be better, I think, to wait until all the facts are in and evaluated before coming to a conclusion about any accident.

 

[Flywrite]

Wow, this guy should still be an investigator. It would save so much time. No more waiting for official findings, just spout opinions a few weeks after a crash.

Sorry, if I sound like i'm busting on you, I dont mean it to sound like that, it just amazes me that a former lead NTSB guy goes around saying things like this. The first rule of accident investigating is make no assumptions. Just how does this guy know all this? The plane had no CVR of FDR, making the investigation pretty tough for the folks actually doing it, never mind someone watching from the sidelines.

 

[cvsfly]

The plane should have had a CVR if they were operating with 2 crewmembers. Anyone know if the co-pilot/SIC was a legal company pilot or a warm body observer pilot put there last minute on the request of the co-pilot or customer?

 

[Flywrite]

Carol Carmody (acting chair of the NTSB) stated that the aircraft had no CVR.
My copy of FAR135 is from last year and I've never flown 135 so I may be wrong, but if the airplane had an approved autopilot it could be operated single pilot, and therefore exempt from the CVR requirement.
I'm getting this from 135.105 and 135.151, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[cvsfly]

That's true. The single pilot authorization isn't automatic. Approved auto-pilot, Ops Sec for auto-pilot, SIC in lieu of auto-pilot, and training and checking. They can still use a qualified SIC if you have this. If they were using a qualified and legal SIC, they may have required the CVR also. Any thoughts?

 

[mike]

If the PIC holds a LOA for single pilot IFR operations (autopilot)the aircraft does not need a CVR regardless of the number of crew members the Company wishes to dispatch. We did this with King Air 200's years ago. Two pilots are not required by aircraft certification or regulation.

 

[501261]

That's true. The single pilot authorization isn't automatic. Approved auto-pilot, Ops Sec for auto-pilot, SIC in lieu of auto-pilot, and training and checking. They can still use a qualified SIC if you have this. If they were using a qualified and legal SIC, they may have required the CVR also. Any thoughts?

I have some experience with this, one of the charter companies I used to work for flew a couple of King Airs 90&200's, and none of them had CVR's.

As PIC's we would all take our checkrides and have the A/P authorized in lieu of SIC's. Since we were all technically capable of SP operations a CVR was not required.

We also had SIC's and they were all qualified and given a 135 checkride, and they flew with us on most trips (hardly ever doing any SP work).

The big gotcha here is that once an SIC became required to do the trip, we couldn't do it because the operation now needed a CVR. For instance if the A/P broke, the airplane was grounded because now an SIC was required by regulation. Or to do a reduced VIS Takeoff an SIC is required, thereby requiring a CVR, thereby grounding us.

Of course this is a really hidden reg; it wasn't till our 3rd POI was around did he inform us that CVR's were required for trips that "required" an SIC. A lot of charter companies simply assume that since the Airplane is certified for SP ops and their certificate allows SP ops they don't need a CVR. I'm sure some POI's look the other way too since they would rather see a properly certified SIC (our SIC's were always properly certified) in the cockpit, than making someone fly around SP because they don't have a CVR.

"Carol Carmody (acting chair of the NTSB) stated that the aircraft had no CVR."

I have also heard that Wellstone's plane did NOT have a CVR.

"He said, "on approach, the King Air A100 slowed to 85 knots and was full of ice. It stalled, simple as that."

I'd be surprised if Feith really said that, any accident investigation is never "as simple as that". Why was he carrying around a load of ice, did the boots not work, was he not properly trained in severe weather avoidance, did the Republicans sabotage the flux capacitor
?

 

[mike]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, the flux capacitor!

 

[flydog]

I was at MEM last week and i saw Elvis

He told me the CIA poisoned him because he knew who killed JFK