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Well this was expected...

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Coming up next...lobbying the FAA to reduce hours required to get a Commercial Pilot License.


It's already in the works!

http://www.atwonline.com/channels/safetySecurity/article.html?articleID=1428

Shortcut or Fast Track?

A new ICAO initiative aims at nothing less than a complete overhaul in the way in which commercial air transport pilots are trained and licensed.

By Oliver Sutton
Air Transport World, October 2005, p.51


Last year, ICAO's Air Navigation Commission tasked its Flight Crew Licensing and Training Panel to investigate whether a new pilot's license could respond to airline demands for pilots better prepared to operate modern aircraft and systems at a lower cost.

The new license, referred to as the Multi-Crew Pilot License, also is seen as a basis to introduce competency-based training for other pilot certificates at a later date. The initial push for change came from Germany.
The MPL would see trainees moving into the right seat of high-performance jet transports with just 240 hr. of instruction. Of this, only between 60 and 120 hr. might actually be in the air and the student would have performed just 12 takeoffs and landings in the type he or she is to fly. The MPL is designed to bypass the training for the current commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating and let the trainee head directly for the "frozen" airline transport pilot license.

The proposal, which currently is going through the ICAO approval process, is creating plenty of discussion in the airline pilot community. Words like experience, airmanship, air sense and aircraft handling skills are being invoked.
The Flight Crew Licensing and Training Panel was tasked specifically to review current licensing (ICAO Annex 1) and training (Annex 6) standards "in order to ensure their continued relevance in meeting current needs while preserving and improving upon existing flight safety levels." An earlier inquiry under the ANC's safety oversight program established that very few member states had defined formal criteria for judging performance in pilot licensing exams or for demonstrating maintenance of competency as required under Annex 6 rules.
The panel further was to determine whether competency-based flightcrew standards could complement and/or replace existing standards based on knowledge, skill and experience that have been in use since Annex 1 came into being. It also was to assess the extended use of flight simulators "in acquiring or maintaining the competences required for the various levels of licenses and ratings, taking into account the type of simulator being used, and determine the credit to be given."

Until the 1960s, most commercial pilots came from an armed forces training background that stressed flying skill, knowledge and mental attitudes. Hours in the air were what counted, with hands-on experience the best and only teacher, and airmanship (also called the art of personal survival) only was acquired in the air. Aircraft handling was a key skill. Instructors were schooled in standardizing the learning process so that students had a consistent and professional approach to flying high-performance aircraft. Years went by with little change in this learning process for military pilots, a majority of whom continued their careers in the air transport industry. Pilots without military training could progress toward their civil licenses but were obliged to follow flying club and civil flight school training methods. Not all received the same quality of training, and standardization of instruction was patchy worldwide.
 
Oh puh-leez! You guys pulled out that supply and demand krap when the pilots had NO bargaining power too. We're not buying commodities here...
I swear the next person who starts this Economics 101 stuff deserves terminal diarrea!


Terry, I understand what you are saying, but there is quite a bit of precedant for hiring very low time pilots. Look no further than the U.S. Military and most european carriers. The military lets 300 hr wonders fly fighters, and C-17's. European and asian carriers have 200 hr wonders flying 777's.

Let's face it gents, your lack of pay and QOL is due to the lack of cohesion amongst pilots. If you don't like your paycheck or schedule, than blame the guy next to you and the one in the mirror.

Look at the UAW, these literally "unskilled laborors" (how new hires are classified) make incredibly good money and are essentially bullet proof. Of course these folks have pretty much tanked their parent companies.
 
Oh puh-leez! You guys pulled out that supply and demand krap when the pilots had NO bargaining power too. We're not buying commodities here...
I swear the next person who starts this Economics 101 stuff deserves terminal diarrea!

I don't know what you mean by "you guys," since I've only been a member of this forum for less than a week... but the last group of people that denied the realities of economics was the soviets and it didn't turn out too well for them. Anyway... the truth is that pilots bargaining power will go up, as soon as the airlines have no source of outside pilots willing to fly for next-to-nothing. That point has not yet been reached; therefore, we are just a commodity.

If pilot-A won’t fly for next-to-nothing someone else will and so on... until there is no “someone else.”

Until there is no one to replace pilots, the threat of collective bargaining is laughable.
 
Terry, I understand what you are saying, but there is quite a bit of precedant for hiring very low time pilots. Look no further than the U.S. Military and most european carriers. The military lets 300 hr wonders fly fighters, and C-17's. European and asian carriers have 200 hr wonders flying 777's.

Yeah, but keep in mind that the selection process of the military and the euro carriers is pretty darn stringent. One in about 40 will be selected to even start, and fewer will finish. Hearing the kids ad Lufthansa tell me about the selection tests...wow. Tough stuff, not at all like our "standards" at our flight schools / academies, which is basically nothing more than a credit check.

Let's face it gents, your lack of pay and QOL is due to the lack of cohesion amongst pilots. If you don't like your paycheck or schedule, than blame the guy next to you and the one in the mirror.

Can't always say this. I fought at 2 airlines, and a frac. At one of the airlines, we were well united. All it took was a federal judge...
My reply is in the box above...
 
Hey, a little off topic, but what ever happened to Air Midwest Chicago flying? ...Those EAS routes from Midway.
 
i hope one day it will pay off for the hard working ones who cfi'd for 1000 hours then did te cargo gig,then the regionals
 
Hey, a little off topic, but what ever happened to Air Midwest Chicago flying? ...Those EAS routes from Midway.


Air Midwest is currently covering those routes. Loads are real low however and I'm not sure how much longer they will last after the federal funding dies out.

Great Lakes is supposed to start service real soon for some of those EAS routes in that area due to RegionsAir dying out...
 
i hope one day it will pay off for the hard working ones who cfi'd for 1000 hours then did te cargo gig,then the regionals
Remember when that was the time-honored route for everybody? Funny how backpacks, hair gel, "my CA is a dork", and that kind of kid stuff was almost absent.
 

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