Well this was expected...

[ReverseSensing]

Is Mesa desperate enough that they dropped the $50 application fee?

 

[Soverytired]

I know Mesa has a training contract on the jet side, do they have one for the props? If so, then some a newhire will be stuck in the right seat there for one year or pay up.

Yes.

$8,000, pro rated over 1 year. And the company actually has the right to increase this by their own formula (which I don't think they've done.)


One other note: ANY time you upgrade or change equipment at Mesa in the FIRST 4 YEARS, you'll sign another training agreement, and the clock starts running again.

 

[WestHouston]

This sort of hiring is going on for the shiny tubes as well. Some of the captains at Trans States were saying there are a few 250-300hr newhires. Can anyone back this up?

I know this is stretching but A GOOD FRIEND has a buddy that just got on at ASA with 250/20 off the street. Or so he says.

 

[CitationUltra]

Wages will adjust... economics say they must. (pardon the rhyme) It will take time with the regionals scraping the bottom of the barrel for pilots. Hopefully then ALPA will finally wake up, dust off its pen and paper, and go to work and take advantage of the bargaining power a pilot shortage brings to the table.

So you think ALPA is suddenly going to wake up and...take advantage of the bargaining power...." Check out the last twenty years of regional airline pilot history and see if you find anything there that would support that theory.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Pay for your own room WTF? What a bunch of loosers. Who da freak would pay for their own room.

 

[hoover]

Coming up next...lobbying the FAA to reduce hours required to get a Commercial Pilot License.

 

[BoilerUP]

The best (sarcasm on high) part is that he'll be a captain here in less than 2 years.

As big as XJT is, with no (announced) growth, do you really think a newhire today will be able to hold a CA upgrade in 24 months based on attrition alone?

 

[Americam]

Trans States won't take a street pilot with 300TT... But if you have some advanced jet training program under your belt (ATP, Jet University, UNoDak's CRJ program, etc) 300TT and a multi-rating makes you competative.

 

[mdanno808]

A wise man once told me that most of the FO's he flew with in the 1900 were simply the 20th passenger.

 

[acaTerry]

It's all about supply and demand. Demand is high, supply is low... hence, the bargaining power for the pilots goes up, and minimums go down.

Oh puh-leez! You guys pulled out that supply and demand krap when the pilots had NO bargaining power too. We're not buying commodities here...
I swear the next person who starts this Economics 101 stuff deserves terminal diarrea!

 

[deadstick]

Coming up next...lobbying the FAA to reduce hours required to get a Commercial Pilot License.

It's already in the works!

http://www.atwonline.com/channels/safetySecurity/article.html?articleID=1428

Shortcut or Fast Track?

A new ICAO initiative aims at nothing less than a complete overhaul in the way in which commercial air transport pilots are trained and licensed.

By Oliver Sutton
Air Transport World, October 2005, p.51


Last year, ICAO's Air Navigation Commission tasked its Flight Crew Licensing and Training Panel to investigate whether a new pilot's license could respond to airline demands for pilots better prepared to operate modern aircraft and systems at a lower cost.

The new license, referred to as the Multi-Crew Pilot License, also is seen as a basis to introduce competency-based training for other pilot certificates at a later date. The initial push for change came from Germany.
The MPL would see trainees moving into the right seat of high-performance jet transports with just 240 hr. of instruction. Of this, only between 60 and 120 hr. might actually be in the air and the student would have performed just 12 takeoffs and landings in the type he or she is to fly. The MPL is designed to bypass the training for the current commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating and let the trainee head directly for the "frozen" airline transport pilot license.

The proposal, which currently is going through the ICAO approval process, is creating plenty of discussion in the airline pilot community. Words like experience, airmanship, air sense and aircraft handling skills are being invoked.
The Flight Crew Licensing and Training Panel was tasked specifically to review current licensing (ICAO Annex 1) and training (Annex 6) standards "in order to ensure their continued relevance in meeting current needs while preserving and improving upon existing flight safety levels." An earlier inquiry under the ANC's safety oversight program established that very few member states had defined formal criteria for judging performance in pilot licensing exams or for demonstrating maintenance of competency as required under Annex 6 rules.
The panel further was to determine whether competency-based flightcrew standards could complement and/or replace existing standards based on knowledge, skill and experience that have been in use since Annex 1 came into being. It also was to assess the extended use of flight simulators "in acquiring or maintaining the competences required for the various levels of licenses and ratings, taking into account the type of simulator being used, and determine the credit to be given."

Until the 1960s, most commercial pilots came from an armed forces training background that stressed flying skill, knowledge and mental attitudes. Hours in the air were what counted, with hands-on experience the best and only teacher, and airmanship (also called the art of personal survival) only was acquired in the air. Aircraft handling was a key skill. Instructors were schooled in standardizing the learning process so that students had a consistent and professional approach to flying high-performance aircraft. Years went by with little change in this learning process for military pilots, a majority of whom continued their careers in the air transport industry. Pilots without military training could progress toward their civil licenses but were obliged to follow flying club and civil flight school training methods. Not all received the same quality of training, and standardization of instruction was patchy worldwide.

 

[airplane wizard]

I am reallyreallyreallyreally good at MSFS...do you think I have a chance at MESA?

 

[Palerider957]

Oh puh-leez! You guys pulled out that supply and demand krap when the pilots had NO bargaining power too. We're not buying commodities here...
I swear the next person who starts this Economics 101 stuff deserves terminal diarrea!

Terry, I understand what you are saying, but there is quite a bit of precedant for hiring very low time pilots. Look no further than the U.S. Military and most european carriers. The military lets 300 hr wonders fly fighters, and C-17's. European and asian carriers have 200 hr wonders flying 777's.

Let's face it gents, your lack of pay and QOL is due to the lack of cohesion amongst pilots. If you don't like your paycheck or schedule, than blame the guy next to you and the one in the mirror.

Look at the UAW, these literally "unskilled laborors" (how new hires are classified) make incredibly good money and are essentially bullet proof. Of course these folks have pretty much tanked their parent companies.

 

[Americam]

Oh puh-leez! You guys pulled out that supply and demand krap when the pilots had NO bargaining power too. We're not buying commodities here...
I swear the next person who starts this Economics 101 stuff deserves terminal diarrea!

I don't know what you mean by "you guys," since I've only been a member of this forum for less than a week... but the last group of people that denied the realities of economics was the soviets and it didn't turn out too well for them. Anyway... the truth is that pilots bargaining power will go up, as soon as the airlines have no source of outside pilots willing to fly for next-to-nothing. That point has not yet been reached; therefore, we are just a commodity.

If pilot-A won’t fly for next-to-nothing someone else will and so on... until there is no “someone else.”

Until there is no one to replace pilots, the threat of collective bargaining is laughable.

 

[acaTerry]

Terry, I understand what you are saying, but there is quite a bit of precedant for hiring very low time pilots. Look no further than the U.S. Military and most european carriers. The military lets 300 hr wonders fly fighters, and C-17's. European and asian carriers have 200 hr wonders flying 777's.

Yeah, but keep in mind that the selection process of the military and the euro carriers is pretty darn stringent. One in about 40 will be selected to even start, and fewer will finish. Hearing the kids ad Lufthansa tell me about the selection tests...wow. Tough stuff, not at all like our "standards" at our flight schools / academies, which is basically nothing more than a credit check.

Let's face it gents, your lack of pay and QOL is due to the lack of cohesion amongst pilots. If you don't like your paycheck or schedule, than blame the guy next to you and the one in the mirror.

Can't always say this. I fought at 2 airlines, and a frac. At one of the airlines, we were well united. All it took was a federal judge...

My reply is in the box above...

 

[rfa]

Hey, a little off topic, but what ever happened to Air Midwest Chicago flying? ...Those EAS routes from Midway.

 

[Kream926]

i hope one day it will pay off for the hard working ones who cfi'd for 1000 hours then did te cargo gig,then the regionals

 

[JSky26]

Hey, a little off topic, but what ever happened to Air Midwest Chicago flying? ...Those EAS routes from Midway.

Air Midwest is currently covering those routes. Loads are real low however and I'm not sure how much longer they will last after the federal funding dies out.

Great Lakes is supposed to start service real soon for some of those EAS routes in that area due to RegionsAir dying out...

 

[acaTerry]

i hope one day it will pay off for the hard working ones who cfi'd for 1000 hours then did te cargo gig,then the regionals

Remember when that was the time-honored route for everybody? Funny how backpacks, hair gel, "my CA is a dork", and that kind of kid stuff was almost absent.

 

[rfa]

Mesa and GL don't hire street captains for the 1900, do they?