Well, 5 more years in the right seat.

[avbug]

No question, a 50 to 60 year-old's reaction time is slowing down, I see it in myself, it's unmistakeable.

There's very little in the airplane that needs a "quick reaction." Most of the time the best thing a pilot can do is sit on his hands and count to ten while he thinks about it, then proceed slowly and methodically. I've seen too many hotshots try to shut down the wrong engine or get too smart for their own good, reinvent he wheel. It's just not necessary.

The most dangerous thing in the cockpit is the pilot. Slow down. Age isn't a bad thing.

What we have in the crowd that's got their panties in a knot over the age issue is the "me" crowd. Gotta have it now. World revolves around them. They think they're somehow more important. Newsflash, kids; you want what the next guy has? Tough. It's not yours. The older pilot has already put in the time; he's in the position to decide to go a few more years, not you. Deal with it.

The pathetic whining about what you think is your due only speaks poorly of you, each of you. It's not your due. You don't have a right here (even your pilot certificate is a privilege). You think you're owed something? You're wrong. Get over it. You're owned nothing.

Welcome to reality. Take some prozac and move on.

 

[Box-Hauler]

World revolves around them. They think they're somehow more important. Newsflash, kids; you want what the next guy has? Tough. It's not yours. The older pilot has already put in the time; he's in the position to decide to go a few more years, not you. Deal with it.

You Sir sound like the whiner. You obviously support the change, and your best argument is to deal with it because you put in the time. With logic like that we should let these geezers go until they die.

This whole issue was pushed by the unions and the companies. I do not know why but now we have only delayed the "pilot shortage" for 5 years. I guess that is until you get your buddies to change age 65 to age 70. The whole issue of a shortage could be corrected by the free market. Pay more and more people will become pilots. Pay crap and get a 200 hr newbie flying your RJ.

This issue is all about economics. The pensions went bust, and now you have to fly till you die to pay for your home, wives, and vices. If the pilots (read ALPA) would have stood up and shut down the whole industry the first time a Legacy airline put the pilots pensions into the PPG this would not be an issue. We can only blame ourselves. I for one want to thank all you senior geezers for screwing me again. Now I will have to fly until I die just to make captain.:beer:

 

[TWA]

What makes everyone think that just because you CAN fly until you're 65 means you WILL fly until you're 65??? There is nothing that says you have to fly until they force you out. Any smart pilot has long since established his own retirement fund, and can retire whenever he dam well pleases.

 

[freight dork]

I've been staying out of this until now, but you all do realize that there are tons of pilots in Europe and Asia that are flying until age 65 and their doing a great job at it, even with 200 hour fo's sitting in the right seats of Boeing and Airbus aircraft.

 

[dutch747]

I've been staying out of this until now, but you all do realize that there are tons of pilots in Europe and Asia that are flying until age 65 and their doing a great job at it, even with 200 hour fo's sitting in the right seats of Boeing and Airbus aircraft.

This is the reason this whole thing got passed in the first place. Anyone who thinks that in 5 years they will pass another law making the age cutoff 70 is an idiot. They have actually been trying for 20 years to get it up to age 65, and now only because Europe did it, the law was passed.

 

[ABXbooger]

They will eventually force you to stay until the retirement age, or take a penalty in your retirement, etc.

Those that think this won't happen are smokin' crack.

Every year longer you work is less time they have to pay your pension...

And back side of the clock flying kicks your butt, much more so than the average people carrier.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Well said Booger,

This is now something that will have to be negotiated for. To get to keep age 60 as an option will cost us something else, maybe a day off a month maybe a buck less an hr of flt pay, who knows. Difference now is that it will be negotiated and at a cost, all to keep the least productive, most costly group of pilots. I still do not see the benefit to this age 65 deal but then again I am just a lowly first officer.

 

[shooter]

Not that this has any imapct on me, (I am the office stiff that will more than likely die by 50 anyhow) but I have to agree with the ones that were against this. As it was posted in another forum:

Age at ////////Average Age
Retirement// At Death

49.9 .......... 86
51.2 .......... 85.3
52.5 .......... 84.6
53.8 .......... 83.9
55.1 .......... 83.2
56.4 .......... 82.5
57.2 .......... 81.4
58.3 .......... 80
59.2 .......... 78.5
60.1 .......... 76.8
61 ............. 74.5
62.1 .......... 71.8
63.1 .......... 69.3
64.1 .......... 67.9
65.2 .......... 66.8





http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gutub/english_misc/retire1.htm

...you should plan your career path and financial matter so that you can retire comfortably at the age of 55 or earlier to enjoy your long, happy and leisure retirement life into your golden age of 80s and beyond...

If possible I will try and shoot for 55 myself. But I do not fool myself that big corp. greed had something to do with pushing this over on you all. There may be some that wanted it, but there is a reason it passed so effortlessly. Sorry guys!

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with NO age
limit, IF and ONLY IF we could eliminate the Drive-by
medical exams that permeate the USA.

CE

 

[DC8 Express]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<They will eventually force you to stay until the retirement age, or take a penalty in your retirement, etc.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You can bet management will try to nego a penalty leaving before 65. They are probably salivating at the thought of taking up to 5 more years to fund your pension and you dying up to 10 years sooner; according to the chart in a previous post.

Another bet: at least 70% of the 121 pilots will fly past their 60th birthday. Maybe not till 65 but a year or two anyway.

 

[avbug]

You obviously support the change,...

Your rapier insight and perception is indeed staggering.

...and your best argument is to deal with it because you put in the time.

I said nothing of having put in the time. I did, however, state that one should deal with it. Your power to read is surpassed only by your perception of the obvious. Your reading comprehension does appear to suffer somewhat, though.

With logic like that we should let these geezers go until they die.

You can draw what you wish from my comments, but the fact remains that the President of the United States signed into law a resoloution upping the age to 65. If you wish to introduce legislation to up the cutoff age to a blanket "death" limit, then by all means, knock yourself out. I, of course, said nothing of the kind.

I do not, however, see a need for any age limits.

Formerly, the age limit for pilots WAS 65. It's been restored, that's all, and it's in line with most of the rest of the planet. Welcome to the modern world.

The thing is this: you want what you don't have, and you want those above you with greater seniority and experience to roll over and die so you can get it. That's just tough for you, isn't it?

Whine all you like. It won't change the law.

 

[Meat n the Seat]

[ Welcome to reality. Take some prozac and move on.
__________________ey think they're somehow more important. Newsflash, kids; you want what the next guy has? Tough. It's not yours. The older pilot has already put in the time; he's in the position to decide to go a few more years, not you. Deal with it.

The pathetic whining about what you think is your due only speaks poorly of you, each of you. It's not your due. You don't have a right here (even your pilot certificate is a privilege). You think you're owed something? You're wrong. Get over it. You're owned nothing.

Welcome to reality. Take some prozac and move on.[/quote]


OK...pass the prozac. While I'm waiting for it to kick in, I'll be thinking about the promotion you got because of the age 60 rule. A promotion born on the backs of those wrongly excomunicated from the Captain's seat. The seniority they earned stolen so the likes of you could replace them. I bet you laughed all the way to the bank back then, didn't you? What did you do back then to protect those pilots who were wrongly removed from the seat they had worked years to earn? Or was this something you got interested in in your late 50's?

 

[LNJPilot]

What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining after the flight.

A quick story here....I had a friend who's dad flew for Pan Am and one day I was perusing their company newsletter and reading a section dedicated to promotions and noticed that ALL the FO's (probably 30 or 40 in that newsletter) had been in the right seat a minimum 20 years before he was upgraded to captain....can you imagine?

 

[Larcifer]

What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining after the flight.

A quick story here....I had a friend who's dad flew for Pan Am and one day I was perusing their company newsletter and reading a section dedicated to promotions and noticed that ALL the FO's (probably 30 or 40 in that newsletter) had been in the right seat a minimum 20 years before he was upgraded to captain....can you imagine?

12 +5 more minimum, yes I can.............must feel goo d to reap the rewards and then stick it to the rest of us. As long as you can feel good about it more power to you, I wish I had no conscience.

 

[dojetdriver]

What we have in the crowd that's got their panties in a knot over the age issue is the "me" crowd. Gotta have it now. World revolves around them. They think they're somehow more important. Newsflash, kids; you want what the next guy has? Tough. It's not yours. The older pilot has already put in the time; he's in the position to decide to go a few more years, not you. Deal with it.

Good point, but the argument still remains;

The older pilot got it when he did thanks to a rule that made guys bang out at 60, not 65.

 

[Flyer8]

Older guys

Which one of the older guys signed the law into effect? I thought the President of the United States did it.. If any one got hosed, it was by the congress and the President..As for why they might stay? Even at our little company, a senior Captain is looking at $700,000.00 in additional salary,Good prices on medical(many of whom have dependents with major health care issues)plus keeping $400,000.00 of life insurance in effect.Not to mention five more years of 401K contributions. At the end of five years,he will be eligible for Medicare and a good social security check. Contrast that with a minimum of $1400-$1600 a month for medical (provided you or a family member has no pre-existing conditions),no social security and only as much life insurance as you can afford. Everyone who has had this law affect them will benefit in the same manner when their time to be old arrives.Just my thoughts on a very sore subject.

 

[OrionFE]

Which one of the older guys signed the law into effect? I thought the President of the United States did it.. If any one got hosed, it was by the congress and the President..As for why they might stay? Even at our little company, a senior Captain is looking at $700,000.00 in additional salary,Good prices on medical(many of whom have dependents with major health care issues)plus keeping $400,000.00 of life insurance in effect.Not to mention five more years of 401K contributions. At the end of five years,he will be eligible for Medicare and a good social security check. Contrast that with a minimum of $1400-$1600 a month for medical (provided you or a family member has no pre-existing conditions),no social security and only as much life insurance as you can afford. Everyone who has had this law affect them will benefit in the same manner when their time to be old arrives.Just my thoughts on a very sore subject.

Good point and well said!

 

[kwick]

Get some medication!

$700k in additional salary? Dude, maybe there's a reason your an F/O.

 

[DC-8_FR8]

$700k in additional salary? Dude, maybe there's a reason your an F/O.

That's $140,000 a year. Seems to be realistic.

 

[b707guy]

$700k in additional salary? Dude, maybe there's a reason your an F/O.

Those are perfectly realistic numbers for our company. And you need to pay more attention to the little notes on the left side of Flyer8's screen, re: F/O reference, an unintentional (I'm sure...) insult.

Back to the subject: We have only a 401(k). Once we retire, the company pays us zero. No incentive to "make" anyone stay until any mandated, fair or not, retirement age. I can live with seniority stagnation. This was going to happen sooner or later. Hopefully, we'll be able to retire by choice at some age when full Social Security benefits become available. A lot of us DON'T want to work to 65, but most of us need to work at least a little past 60 for various reasons. As long as you can pass a check ride and a real physical (i.e, no "walk thrus"), as brought up above.

 

[Flyer8]

Oh My!

Being mistaken for an FO and defended by one of my Captains(thank you) is more than this old Professional Flight Engineer can bear....I swear that if I get even a glimpse of the "big picture", I will retire myself...LOL

 

[Jurassic Jet]

That's $140,000 a year. Seems to be realistic.

Easily.

With some of the open time pigs we have at ABX, 5 more years could easlily earn somebody another $1.5 Million.

Well, I guess I shouldn't say easily. They're gonna fly every day until they drop over dead at 65 years and 1 day old.

 

[b707guy]

Being mistaken for an FO and defended by one of my Captains(thank you) is more than this old Professional Flight Engineer can bear....I swear that if I get even a glimpse of the "big picture", I will retire myself...LOL

Glad to be of assistance!:beer: