Weight restricted? Grrr...

[regionalcap]

You're kidding right?

On a 200 mile flight, the CRJ-200 is weight limited to about 45 pax on a clear day. On a bad weather day with an alternate or two, you'd be lucky to get 35 on. It is landing weight limited to 47,000 lbs plus the enroute fuel burn. Which would be about 2200 lbs on that flight. Do the math, pal. Now, do you want some cheese with that whine?

How much experience do you have on the RJ? You can easily take 50 pax on a clear day on a short flight.

 

[j41driver]

It's a privilege afforded by the captain, not the gate agent.

I see that you didn't get to talk to the Captain but did you even ask to see him/her?

 

[lionflyer]

Haha...you're so funny. uke:

Well, since the vast majority of you guys that post on here want to whine about the "erosion of captain's authority" yet offer no solutions...I offer a one that I've seen work for others. Take charge, be a leader, and all that other captain-y crap...quit whining and do something. Jesus Tapdancin' Christ...

As a guy that practically almost commutes home to DFW every week or so, as well as a one-time gate agent, I'm not clueless as to the etiquette of the jumpseat...on both the captain's end of things and the gate agent's end of things. I hear pilots complain about their problems with getting on the jumpseat...yet, I have little to no problems in comparison (and that's saying something, being a dispatcher, where the typical response is "are you sure you can jumpseat?" from pilot and gate agent alike). Not just DFW, either...pretty much every major hub and alot of outstations...with most airlines.

Wanna get past the gate agents? It's all about your attitude. Show up to their gate with one and they will go out of their way to ensure you don't get on. Be courteous and respectful and most will go out of their way to help you. Oh, and if you commute from the smaller outstations, be in full on kiss-a$$ mode at all times...they will remember you. I've lied to OAL pilots about jumpseat availability when they were a-holes...and I've bumped revenue pax that were in "questionable condition to fly" in order to get a pilot on.

Also, I'm a big believer in Jumpseat Karma.

If they say they are weight restricted, calmly and courteously ask if there's any chance you can speak with the captain. Decide to cop attitude, and see the paragraph above. They don't know you guys can sometimes make the numbers work...and you can't expect them to know that.

I know I shouldn't have to give a grade-school primer in jumpseating...but I swear, sometimes I feel like I should teach an ettiquite class or something with the things I see and hear about out there.

Agree. Attitude is everything. However, I have dealt with some gate agents that just flat out have a bug up their a$$ for whatever reason. I had a blond NWA agent in DTW that was just a Biytch. Had the Capt not come up to get his paperwork, I wouldn't have gotton on. I was nothing but nice and polite to her.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

You're kidding right?

On a 200 mile flight, the CRJ-200 is weight limited to about 45 pax on a clear day. On a bad weather day with an alternate or two, you'd be lucky to get 35 on. It is landing weight limited to 47,000 lbs plus the enroute fuel burn. Which would be about 2200 lbs on that flight. Do the math, pal. Now, do you want some cheese with that whine?

What are you are talking about????????????

 

[Mookie]

You're kidding right?

On a 200 mile flight, the CRJ-200 is weight limited to about 45 pax on a clear day. On a bad weather day with an alternate or two, you'd be lucky to get 35 on. It is landing weight limited to 47,000 lbs plus the enroute fuel burn. Which would be about 2200 lbs on that flight. Do the math, pal. Now, do you want some cheese with that whine?

she's right guys....wow...someone who actually proves their point w numbers rather than calling others names. funny that a chick is the only one to make any sense out of this...ya'll know that every carrier who flies 200's has somewhat different weight and balance programs, right?? didn't they teach ya'll that at Riddle??? seriously....

I'm a big believer in JS karma too. had a gate agent give the same b.s. story about weight restrictions ono a 757 (American)...so I said "thank you"...walked over to the window right in front of the cockpit, pushed my badge against it until I got the attention of the captain. he then strolled up...said a few words to the gate agent, and then accompanied me to my first class seat. so rad...

I will always go to the gate agent and ask if there jumpseaters looking for a ride if i have any idea if the flight is going to be close to full. our ANC agents sometimes can get a little blase' about getting offline dudes on.

Mookie

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Sorry to sound like a jerk, but do you even fly the CRJ-200? 35 passengers on a bad weather day? Are you kidding me? The most restricted I've ever personally seen with an alternate and a boatload of fuel and bags has been at 48, possibly 47, passengers. That happens rarely. I haven't experienced any clear weather problems with weight on the -200 at my airline, and we fly a lot of routes like ORD-MKE/MSN/AZO/MLI/PIA/SPI etc.... If the weather is good then we can carry a full boat plus jumpseater.

I pulled the numbers out of my head, based on experience.

What was your point? Are you saying you could have taken 50+1 in a CRJ-200 from BGR to BOS given the lousy weather that day?

 

[rtmcfi]

I pulled the numbers out of my head, based on experience.

What was your point? Are you saying you could have taken 50+1 in a CRJ-200 from BGR to BOS given the lousy weather that day?

You pulled those numbers out of somewhere.....

 

[CRJ puppy]

Dang guys...I've been denied a seat on a mad dog from cvg to atl in very bad weather, distant alternates...this isn't uncommon for a cjr-100/200.

Weather was such yesterday that viable alternates for Boston the past two days were in Pennsylvania so lotsa fuel as has been mentioned.

Also if the plane was 30 late and the js didn't get to speak to the Capt, then exactly how late was the js'er getting to the flight??

Perhaps there was no ballast in Bangor, perhaps dispatch had already told the gate that the flight was weight restricted and gate agent had already worked with crew to get max outbound b4 js asked...

I'm with most others...stuff happens...always give yourself commuting options and NEVER depend on any ONE flight and NEVER, EVER come onto a webboard to throw a tantrum 'cuz u didn't make a flight!!

Enjoy.

 

[johnboy99]

You're kidding right?

On a 200 mile flight, the CRJ-200 is weight limited to about 45 pax on a clear day. On a bad weather day with an alternate or two, you'd be lucky to get 35 on. It is landing weight limited to 47,000 lbs plus the enroute fuel burn. Which would be about 2200 lbs on that flight. Do the math, pal. Now, do you want some cheese with that whine?

Wow, I have seen some dumb post but this one might deserve an award. I bet your baby daddy sure is proud of you. Get a clue, I sure hope your not flying any flight I am trying to get home on. Good weather or bad.

 

[dojetdriver]

Then don't allow for the loss of that authority. If you want to keep that authority...get your butt out of the left seat, walk to the gate, and ask the agent "Hey, is there anyone trying to jumpseat with us today?". The best solutions are oftentimes the easiest ones...

And what do you do again? That's right, you dispatch.

So lets get this straight, because I'm sure you do get to do it all the time.

On a 25 minute turn, we're supposed to get the people off, do the checklists, calculate limits if necessary, look over the paper work and call DX because he ********************ed up and forgot to put an alternate on, do the required departure brief, program the FMS, take a pi$$, AND THEN go up the jetway and ask a busy gate agent who wants the flight out?

 

[Goose Egg]

On a 25 minute turn, we're supposed to get the people off, do the checklists, calculate limits if necessary, look over the paper work and call DX because he ********************ed up and forgot to put an alternate on, do the required departure brief, program the FMS, take a pi$$, AND THEN go up the jetway and ask a busy gate agent who wants the flight out?

Yes, and might I add, 25 minutes is the Brasilia equivalent to "all day."

-Goose

 

[WalterSobchak]

And what do you do again? That's right, you dispatch.

So lets get this straight, because I'm sure you do get to do it all the time.

On a 25 minute turn, we're supposed to get the people off, do the checklists, calculate limits if necessary, look over the paper work and call DX because he ********************ed up and forgot to put an alternate on, do the required departure brief, program the FMS, take a pi$$, AND THEN go up the jetway and ask a busy gate agent who wants the flight out?

Ahhhh, there's that leadership I was looking for.

 

[dojetdriver]

Ahhhh, there's that leadership I was looking for.

Good response to basically not knowing what you are talking about.

Try again.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

On a 25 minute turn, we're supposed to get the people off, do the checklists, calculate limits if necessary, look over the paper work and call DX because he ********************ed up and forgot to put an alternate on, do the required departure brief, program the FMS, take a pi$$, AND THEN go up the jetway and ask a busy gate agent who wants the flight out?

Wow, aren't you just a commuter's wet dream...

 

[WalterSobchak]

Good response to basically not knowing what you are talking about.

Pot, meet kettle.

You don't know me, anything about me, my experience, or how I operate. So, throwing around an accusation that I am completely clueless as to the chaotic nature and timing of a basic RJ quickturn makes you sound, well, kinda stupid.

I double and even triple my required jumpseat time every year...not because I like being crammed in an uncomfortable seat with two people I probably don't particularly like, or because I think it's "cool", but because I try to constantly educate myself on the repercussions of decisions made on my end and the impact on crew and pax alike. I do this by attaching myself with a crew for a full day and following them through swaps, quickturns, and long delays. Their day is my day...and it helps to better understand the things pilots claim we don't. If only I could get any pilot to come spend even half a shift with me and see what a joy it can be managing 3 flow programs and re-piecing the puzzle together everytime MX and WX try to take it apart piece by piece.

I don't claim to know and understand every single thing you face (just like you a vast majority of you guys haven't the slightest clue what we do all day or why we do it...too much specialized tribal knowledge and mindsets already set in a certain mode on both sides), however I do have a working knowledge. What I do know is there are a few captains here and there (not just at my company, but everywhere according to my colleagues at other airlines...regional, LCC, and major alike) who, quite frankly, fail at basic decision making and general situational awareness and control of their flights once on the ground.

These are typically the guys who want someone else to make the decisions for them, don't want to take a stand on anything for fear of being labeled "difficult", and whine about every minor obstacle they face in the process. These tend to be the same type of people that go on internet forums and complain about everything, then complain being given a little constructive criticism because that person is on the outside looking in...nevermind the fact that the person has seen it work for people in your position who are widely regarded as excellent at what they do.

I don't sit here and claim that I can do what you do or know everything about your day-to-day...but to generalize and determine that I know nothing because of my job title (when my job description essentially calls for an ability to intuitively know what you're thinking at any given moment) just because you have some kind of ego issue with a little criticism does little more than make you look like the idiot.

Good day, fly safe...

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I'd love to sit in SOC for a day and watch what dispatch and scheduling have to deal with.... Think the company would actually let me?

 

[dispatchguy]

Walt

Well said, well spoken. I wish all crews would have to spend "jumpseat time" in OCC. Those that have, have had their eyes opened wide - like mine when I jumpseated into ASE a few years back - at minimums.

Yeah, if you truly believe in JS Karma (like I do), while you are up taking your whiz (unless you can go to a nonpublic area for your whiz), you can scan the gate area for potential jumpseaters on your way to the crapper, or back to the plane. It's not that difficult (ORD Concourse F being the exception, in that case I apologize).

I like the holding your badge against the window to get their attention - just might have to try that next time....

 

[lindsaya99]

I dug up some old releases from training events so we could get some real numbers (or at least close to it). Most of the numbers here are based on a flight from CLT-GSO in October 2007. I am assuming clear day with 50 pax and a jump so I manipulated the numbers for those weights.

Burn 1566 00.30
Reserve 2146 00.45
Alt/Msap 0 00.00
Hold 0 00.00
T/O Fuel 3715 01.15

Bow 32005
Pyld 11700 (50 Pax-50 Checked-25 Carry-on)
J/S 190
Zfw 43895 limit 44000
Fob 3715
Tow 47610
Burn 1566
Lgw 46044 limit 47000
Fod 2146

As you can see, it can be done on a day that doesn't require an alternate but its close. Personally, I wouldn't be too comfortable with a fuel load as low as this but there is room for another 20 minutes of gas before we run into landing weight issues. Nasty weather will obviously increase the fuel requirements and allow less Passengers and bags.

 

[dojetdriver]

Pot, meet kettle.

You don't know me, anything about me, my experience, or how I operate. So, throwing around an accusation that I am completely clueless as to the chaotic nature and timing of a basic RJ quickturn makes you sound, well, kinda stupid.

And you don't know me, my background, or anything about either. So making the accusation that I need to come up with a solution makes you sound, well, kinda stupid.

I double and even triple my required jumpseat time every year...not because I like being crammed in an uncomfortable seat with two people I probably don't particularly like, or because I think it's "cool", but because I try to constantly educate myself on the repercussions of decisions made on my end and the impact on crew and pax alike. I do this by attaching myself with a crew for a full day and following them through swaps, quickturns, and long delays. Their day is my day...and it helps to better understand the things pilots claim we don't.

Well good for you.

If only I could get any pilot to come spend even half a shift with me and see what a joy it can be managing 3 flow programs and re-piecing the puzzle together everytime MX and WX try to take it apart piece by piece.

Funny, I have done that, multiple times. My previous employer had a program for that purpose so I had no problem participating.

I don't claim to know and understand every single thing you face (just like you a vast majority of you guys haven't the slightest clue what we do all day or why we do it...too much specialized tribal knowledge and mindsets already set in a certain mode on both sides), however I do have a working knowledge.

Yep, and I NEVER said I had all the knowledge of your job. But you sure are making a lot of assumptions here. But I have a "working knowledge" as you put it.

What I do know is there are a few captains here and there (not just at my company, but everywhere according to my colleagues at other airlines...regional, LCC, and major alike) who, quite frankly, fail at basic decision making and general situational awareness and control of their flights once on the ground.

Yep, but did I say I was one of them? All I said was there has been an ersosion of PIC authority in regards to the JS. I've been commuting for 8 years to 7 different bases both pre and post 9/11. If you don't know what I'm talking about, try to JS more often on different carriers.

I don't sit here and claim that I can do what you do or know everything about your day-to-day

See above, we already established this.

...but to generalize and determine that I know nothing because of my job title (when my job description essentially calls for an ability to intuitively know what you're thinking at any given moment) just because you have some kind of ego issue with a little criticism does little more than make you look like the idiot.

Who has the ego issue? Funny, a dispacter trying to lecture pilots on the JS. You know, the guys that have to deal with it day in day out.

Good day, fly safe...

You too, try to dispatch safe.

 

[dojetdriver]

Wow, aren't you just a commuter's wet dream...

I'm 100% sure we have a mutual friend from XJT so I won't flame you because he says you are a good guy.

But as a commuter myself, try to find something I wrote where I said would not do whatever it takes to get a fellow commuter on the airplane?