Weapons

[Gulfstream 200]

After reading another thread, I have a question for folks carrying security with them...

What is your company policy about firearms onboard? How is it enforced? (none, lockbox, dont ask-dont tell, etc...)

just curious.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Our FD operates only under Part 91, But our crews imposes that all firearms must be guardes on a lockbox, also they don't fly transporting large firearms (AR-15 as example), it also aplies to stunt guns and pepper sprays.

 

[semperfido]

i have seen a few...don't ask-don't tell be descreet

 

[Diesel]

flying rap stars sometimes you have to ask who is not armed.

 

[User546]

Are you referring to the passengers or the pilots, and also do you mean onboard as in the cabin, or in the luggage compartment?

We have more of a "dont ask dont tell" as it pertains to both."

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Oh no, not luggage...not as concerned there. I was asking as in armed security in the cabin. Not hunting, skeet, etc...

humm...your pilots carry?

I think that unless for a real reason that may be a quick termination most places. Im not sure who can carry in all states, outside the US, etc...

And as far as rap stars....NO THANKS!

 

[irapilot]

Use caution with pepper spray, there was a case of it being carried in the cabin, canister got discharged (by mistake) and it brought down the plane. I made sure it always got put in the float compartments. That would suck, having it discharged in the a/c.

And another note - there is nothing more scary than a packing wannabe, nothing. I had a guy try to get on my plane in AK with a cocked .45 in a shoulder rig - said it was for bears - no way man!

There should be some SOP or understanding in place, after all, you don't want to try to clear customs somwhere and find out that someone is packing that should not be.

Good luck, keep your head down.

 

[Duderino]

Hey IRAPilot, I carry and my .45 is always cocked and loaded with one in the chamber, or Condition One to those in the know. I don't see the purpose of having a gun with you if it is not Cocked and Locked. I think maybe you were a little aprehensive cause you aren't familiar with guns or the 1911 .45. Any 1911 fan will tell you the same thing, period.

To those of you using the "don't ask don't tell theory", I warn you. I was given permission flying 135 to carry by the CP of a company who obviously has Operation Control, as well as his FFL. Long story short, it got me in a mess, because I was too young and naive to get a LOA from him. It was his word against mine. I recommend you guys carrying be sure you have your License covered.

 

[FracCapt]

Hey IRAPilot, I carry and my .45 is always cocked and loaded with one in the chamber, or Condition One to those in the know. I don't see the purpose of having a gun with you if it is not Cocked and Locked. I think maybe you were a little aprehensive cause you aren't familiar with guns or the 1911 .45. Any 1911 fan will tell you the same thing, period.

I carried Condition Two for many years. I had the draw perfected....no problems. I was shy about carrying Condition One, but finally after much training and demonstrations by a senior gunsmith with Kimber, I decided Condition One was totally safe. I then carried my Kimber and Springfield that way for many more years. I now carry, most of the time, a Para Ordnance LDA(C6 Para Carry) with a bit of work done to it. It's the best of both worlds....although, I would like to eliminate the safety on it alltogether. As you can probably tell, I'm also a big Glock fan....but they are too big and bulky....but they are simple and reliable, with no manual safety to forget.

 

[User546]

humm...your pilots carry?

I think that unless for a real reason that may be a quick termination most places. Im not sure who can carry in all states, outside the US, etc...

Sorry Gulfstream, I probably didn't word that well.

I was talking more specifically about the passengers, and not the pilots. One of the guys I fly with always carries a handgun, but he always keeps it in his suitcase in the luggage compartment.

I think it's to be assumed that when your carrying someone who is accompanied by a bodyguard, that they are packing, but they also are well trained and responsible enough not to be coached and egged on by the "guys up front." We fly mostly the same guys over and over, so after awhile it doesn't become much an issue.

That story about the Pepper Spray was interesting. I never had thought about the potential of something like that happening. Something to keep in mind for the future!

 

[Rick1128]

Over the years, I have had the opportunity to carry many different passengers who carry weapons. Very few were personal bodyguards. Those that were, conducted themselves very professionally for the most part. Rambo wannabes don't last too long in that field. All the others were either DOD or law enforcement. Of all the local PD, County Sheriffs, US Marshals, FBI, Bureau of Prisons, Secret Service, etc, the most problems I have ever had was with the Secret Service. Usually attitude. And always WITHOUT a protectee on board.

I have always talked with the weapon carrier prior to boarding the aircraft. I discuss with the private weapon carrier my rules for carrying on my aircraft. One of which is that they never pull their weapon once they are on my aircraft. This also applys to most of the military personnel. With the law enforcement personnel and military security guards, I talk with them about my preferences about their firearms use. 1. it is not pulled when the aircraft door is closed. 2. When the aircraft door is closed they use some other method if at all possible. 3. If it becomes necessary, do NOT shot towards the cockpit. If they do I will be EXTREMELY UNHAPPY.

I also discuss with them what type of ammunition they are using. Each type of round creates different problems in an aircraft.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

..... When the aircraft door is closed they use some other method if at all possible. 3. If it becomes necessary, do NOT shot towards the cockpit. If they do I will be EXTREMELY UNHAPPY.

I also discuss with them what type of ammunition they are using. Each type of round creates different problems in an aircraft.

Wrong aproach, our crews are more clear, no guns on hands or belts when the door is closed, no matter if the holder is a marshall or the presidents bodyguard, when the door is closed all the guns must be stored at the cockpit, we are more relaxed with stunt guns but only for security personel, no pepper gas spay allowed in no way.

It's impossible to think in air security with a gun inside the cabin, no mather if the caliber is .22 the intrinsic danger isn't aceptable.

 

[Rick1128]

Wrong aproach, our crews are more clear, no guns on hands or belts when the door is closed, no matter if the holder is a marshall or the presidents bodyguard, when the door is closed all the guns must be stored at the cockpit, we are more relaxed with stunt guns but only for security personel, no pepper gas spay allowed in no way.

It's impossible to think in air security with a gun inside the cabin, no mather if the caliber is .22 the intrinsic danger isn't aceptable.

It ain't gonna happen! They will not surrender their weapons to anyone, especially a G-D CIVILIAN. I will make it a little clearer. If they are required to do so, they may keep the clip in and a round in the chamber, but the hammer must remain down and the safety(s) ON. Plus the weapon must not be drawn except as a last resort. When not on escort duties, I insist they remove the clip and jack out the chambered round. Except for a couple of cases with members of the USSS Presidential detail (without the President anywhere around),I have never been refused. For the most part the Officers are professionals and act accordingly. In fact a majority of the Private Security Agents I have dealt with are some of the most professional I have dealt with. It must be because they feel they are under closer scrutanty than law enforceemhnt.

 

[semperfido]

I discuss with the private weapon carrier my rules for carrying on my aircraft. One of which is that they never pull their weapon once they are on my aircraft.

i doubt they will give a rat's patooty about your rules once the poopoo hits the fan....but i could be wrong. i doubt they care if you are unhappy either. i know i wouldn't.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Im happiest when armed security leaves them at the steps of the plane and more armed security meets them at the destination.

My concerns are some yahoo ex secret service carrying onboard (to my unknown) then discharging his .45 into his leg (or towards the cockpit) at 30West.

I am by no means anti-gun, I simply see no need for a gun onboard a corporate aircraft. If you are that concerned, you can be met by a small army at your destination for all I care...
Sounds to me like most have the "dont ask dont tell" policy.

 

[FracCapt]

Wrong aproach, our crews are more clear, no guns on hands or belts when the door is closed, no matter if the holder is a marshall or the presidents bodyguard, when the door is closed all the guns must be stored at the cockpit

You tell certain LEO's this, and they will tell you to pound sand. They WILL carry on their person. Most LEO's will NOT give up their weapon to a civilian. PERIOD. If you tell a FAM or a SS to give up their weapon, they will tell you to f#$& off. I only require that if they are carrying a single action auto that they NOT carry 'Cocked and locked'. I have yet to find an LEO on an airplane that is carrying a SA auto, though....so it hasn't been an issue.