Was relative or DOH rejected by SW/AAI?

[cptcrunch]

Bought their job really. how much did it cost them. think i still have some tax return money around here.

 

[luvfan]

Ok

Fuji
et. al.

I'll call your bluff.

When push comes to shove, if you get a chance to take our CBA you will do so and give up seniority. This is because it's a good deal for you.

Or, you will turn it down. And take your chances...we'll see how that goes...that isn't a threat it's just what it is...

None of us is entitled to anything. We aren't the boss. Just be thankful for what you have...

 

[freightdogfred]

How do you integrate these pilots on a list where both these people feel like it's fair?

There's the rub-you can't. That's why a neutral 3rd party is brought in. Only he, with no skin in the game, can make the decision, fairly and impartially. Now, when it's apparent that would actually happen, SWAPA changes the rules of the game, to force an agreement upon the the FL pilot group under the obviously very real threat of loss of employment by non integration.

You can spin this any way you like- call it protecting your culture, taking care of your own, whatever. It's an abrogation of the agreement, dirty pool if you will and most neutral observers will paint the WN pilot group in a different light. I've heard the phrase "we're protecting out culture" too many times on this forum in defense of this strategy and I submit to you that this latest turn of events has done more damage to the WN culture and image than any arbitrator could ever do.

My .02 cents.

 

[luvfan]

Businexx

It's only business and just a job.

Not saying that to be glib but it's true. many more important things out there in life.

Chers Fred!!!

 

[Carl S.]

When was the last major SLI to go DOH? 1988 or so?

 

[slaquer5]

Do you think the God King really gives a hoot just as long as the seats have butts in them?

That is the million dollar question . AT and alpa think GK and co are a bunch of puzzys they can push around. So far they have yanked SWA around like a cat w/ a mouse.

I guess time will tell how powerful alpa was telling GK to go fuc himself.

 

[GuppyWN]

When you hire on to a company, you accrue/earn seniority

Just because you earned something at one employer does not mean you earned it at another. One does not equal the other. The entitlement mentality makes me sick.

 

[scarlet]

If you don't like the process or the federal law then don't buy another airline !! SIMPLE

USAir/AM WEst NEVER had a PROCRESS AGREEMENT.

SWA MGT Signed it
SWAPA signed it
ALPA signed it
AT MGT signed it

Be careful with a different pay rate !! SWA can go buy the new Canadair with 119 seats and be a different pay rate. Or they will use it again in neg.

 

[freightdogfred]

Just because you earned something at one employer does not mean you earned it at another. One does not equal the other. The entitlement mentality makes me sick.

Sorry you're feeling so sick. Me too. That's the way mergers in this business work. It's not entitlement, it's the standard, accepted practice.
Except when SWAPA is involved, evidently...But hell, it is what it is. I just had expected the agreements to be followed, and to be treated with a little more class and respect from a group who has always exhibited these qualities. It's not the first time I've been disappointed in this business and quite frankly I expect any agreement that follows to be changed again should it so suit SWAPA. C'est la vie...

 

[Ex737Driver]

Just because you earned something at one employer does not mean you earned it at another. One does not equal the other. The entitlement mentality makes me sick.

Why not? Are you really saying that you are better than an AAI pilot? Sounds awful similar to the UAL/Frontier "brain surgeon" attempt at seniority integration.

 

[Dan Roman]

A tale of two pilots.

I remember once upon a time. This happened about ten years ago.

One pilot took out a loan and spent his $10,000 on a type rating so he could get an interview at an airline in Dallas. He was really lucky and he got the interview and got hired. It wasn't because he was better it was because of good fortune and he was very happy because he liked his new place of employment. He got his job in 2003 and he is a first officer at a company known as Southwest Airlines.

Another pilot who was equally qualified decided to interview at AirTran and he was also very fortunate to have a job. He got the call and the job and he has been there since. He is a Captain at AirTran and has been for quite some time...

How do you integrate these pilots on a list where both these people feel like it's fair?

It's a tough row to hoe.

But one thing is for sure. The guy who spent $10,000 of his own money and interviewed at SWA, and flew to Dallas from Japan where he was stationed in the AF. Well he showed he was loyal to a brand and made a leap of faith to work at a place where he really wanted to work. Not saying the other guy isn't a good guy or doesn't want to be here. But do you honestly think Gary Kelly thinks they are equals?? Do you think this matters to him?

Gary Kelly made about a million bucks last year with salary and benefits. Someone of his caliber on Wall Street could easily command 10X this. He could quit this crazy industry tomorrow and make bank. But he won't. He does his job because he cares about our company and our culture. The boys in this game need to remember this. This ain't some penny ante poker game. Gary is playing for keeps and he cares about his company.

I am curious, what's the difference between the dedication to buy a 737 type to get a job and someone who goes the Gulfstream route? Some SWA guys seems to be trying to slander Todd O for going that route (Wave made a mistake posting it and admitted it).
My point is what profound ignorance and arrogance it is to slander someone who bought training in an RJ to further their career and than trumpet buying 737 training to further one's career as different or better (and no I am not a SWA hater, just making an observation).

 

[Double Shot]

some of us did not buy our types.

 

[jbDC9]

But one thing is for sure. The guy who spent $10,000 of his own money and interviewed at SWA, and flew to Dallas from Japan where he was stationed in the AF. Well he showed he was loyal to a brand and made a leap of faith to work at a place where he really wanted to work.

Well whoop-de-freakin' do... tell me, how does this nonsense translate into making it okay to hose the other guys??

Why not? Are you really saying that you are better than an AAI pilot? Sounds awful similar to the UAL/Frontier "brain surgeon" attempt at seniority integration.

Yep, from what I've read here, that seems to describe the SWA guys view of things.

 

[SWA/FO]

I've been told my career earnings are worth $8,500,000.00 at Southwest. My type rating, after I was offered "we would like you to continue in the process" phone call by Southwest - cost me $7400.00.

I think, Gulfsteam pays you back the money you paid them, little by little. So you are basically paying yourself, your own cash.

Would you trade $7,400 for 8.5 Million? I did.

 

[GuppyWN]

SW pilots have no desire to "hurt" anyone. Many AT pilots only look at what they think is "fair" for them, not at all realizing the effect on thousands of pilots hired at the airline thats buying them. Just because you earned a "management" position at the corner donut shop does not mean you earned an executive position at Dunkin Donuts when they purchase your company, especially not above current Dunkin employees. To expect it is unrealistic.

 

[Boxboy]

SW pilots have no desire to "hurt" anyone. Many AT pilots only look at what they think is "fair" for them, not at all realizing the effect on thousands of pilots hired at the airline thats buying them. Just because you earned a "management" position at the corner donut shop does not mean you earned an executive position at Dunkin Donuts when they purchase your company, especially not above current Dunkin employees. To expect it is unrealistic.

Staple them all...... niiiiiiiiice! Arrogance is the beginning of downfall.

 

[GuppyWN]

That's not what was said or implied.

If Delta bought Virgin America would the 3 year Virgin America captain deserve to keep his seat ahead of a 15 year Delta FO?

Gup

 

[jbDC9]

Just because you earned something at one employer does not mean you earned it at another. One does not equal the other. The entitlement mentality makes me sick.

SW pilots have no desire to "hurt" anyone. Many AT pilots only look at what they think is "fair" for them, not at all realizing the effect on thousands of pilots hired at the airline thats buying them. Just because you earned a "management" position at the corner donut shop does not mean you earned an executive position at Dunkin Donuts when they purchase your company, especially not above current Dunkin employees. To expect it is unrealistic.

Wow... is this arrogance or ego? Or just plain assholiness? I know that's not a real word, but it sure seems to describe a few of the SWA dudes on here.

That's not what was said or implied.

Soo, what are you saying or implying? From what I've read here it looks like SWA attitude is: ratios, bad! Staples, good!

 

[wood pecker]

Since our guys are gagged by either a gimp or a law I don't know, but I am intrested in hearing the other side.

I thought the only issue was your retirments, our junior CA, and your senior FO not getting pay protected.

Please share and that please is not the sarcastic kind. I want to know your dirty laundry from the previous deal minus the skid marks.

 

[ngsp]

That's not what was said or implied.

If Delta bought Virgin America would the 3 year Virgin America captain deserve to keep his seat ahead of a 15 year Delta FO?

Gup

NO, but he would expect to be a 3 year FO and given credit for his DOH. then let the seats fall where they may. as it is, swapa wants the seats AND for us to go to the back of the line.

i want to work at swa as much as the next guy, but we will remember how we are being treated for a very long time.