Want to hear something funny?

[mattpilot]

Actually, its not funny. It's pretty sad.

Spartan college of aeronautics (thats in tulsa ok) just upped their flight training rates.

A 1 shi.tty 2 is now a wuppin' $140 an hour. A 172R $160 and a 172RG $180. Thats dual AND solo. A seminole is $260.

I can get a baron55 for $180 an hour at the same airport.

Reason for the increase? Increasing fuel prices of course. Although the last time i checked, fuel prices started to sink again.

I guess the owner ment the fuel prices of all his expensive cars he keeps on buying. I hear especially his new jaguar needs lots of fuel.

My advice to anyone considering spartan, stay the hell away!!! Back when i started the cost was still $90 an hour for a 152. They keep on increasing the price for bogus reasons. May i recommend Airmen in norman, OK? Minitour recommends it .

 

[mayday1]

I had inquired about CFI training at spartan some time ago... I was told that because I had done my training part 61 that my job prospects in professional flying were non-existent.

I was further told that if wanted to train at spartan I would need to complete their undergrad(?) curriculum, despite having a bachelors and MBA.

No thanks.. one call with their recruiter was enough for me.

 

[mattpilot]

90/hr is still insane for a 152.

Why did you/still do go there?

I got 99% of the ground classes done only got like 30 hours of CFI training left. So it doesn't affect me as much as it does someone who starts with 0 time.

The main reason i'm there is for the associates degree. Since i'm basically done with the program, i'm gonna finish it and get that 'degree'. Thing is, i can't transfer to another school, because no one accepts spartans 'credits'. Would i make the same decision again? Hell no!


Also consider this...

When i started in 2001 they had like 60-80 people join every month in a 3 month period. Last fall they had 17(!!!!!) guys join in a 3 month period. I think that says something, no?

 

[Kream926]

quit your b!tchin and go back where you came from then

 

[mattpilot]

quit your b!tchin and go back where you came from then

shut up brownie!



btw - where were you today? you missed quite an exciting presentation.

 

[Snakum]

61 that my job prospects in professional flying were non-existent. I was further told that if wanted to train at spartan I would need to complete their undergrad(?) curriculum, despite having a bachelors and MBA.

What is it about the aviation business that brings out the scumbags? People like this ...

Charlatans in OK charging $140 per hour for a 152 ... these dirtbags in the deep south who took tens of thousands of dollars from students and then closed up ... the guy in the midwest who makes aspiring CFIs work in the office for free for a few weeks to see if he wants to let them instruct at his school ... a school here in the southeast that requires it's CFIs to be at the desk, pumping fuel, answering phones seven days per week, NO days off, ever, and yet only pays them per flight hour.

What's the deal?

 

[Kream926]

cfi's QOL i guess isnt that bad here. sure they pay aint great but what cfi job is? they fly and get payed for it. no answering phones or fueling planes

 

[User546]

What is it about the aviation business that brings out the scumbags? People like this ...

Charlatans in OK charging $140 per hour for a 152 ... these dirtbags in the deep south who took tens of thousands of dollars from students and then closed up ... the guy in the midwest who makes aspiring CFIs work in the office for free for a few weeks to see if he wants to let them instruct at his school ... a school here in the southeast that requires it's CFIs to be at the desk, pumping fuel, answering phones seven days per week, NO days off, ever, and yet only pays them per flight hour.

What's the deal?

I agree completely. What's sad though is that as long as there are customers out there that are willing to do these things and pay these prices, then they'll always be these scum bag operators. It's simple supply and demand - if the "customers" quit demanding, then there will be no suppliers (and the scumbags will be out of business) Sadly though that will never happen.

I hope that $140/hr for a 152 comes with a fresh bottle of Vaseline everytime it's dispatched!

 

[Kream926]

'wonder how much embry charges?

 

[User546]

'wonder how much embry charges?

I dont know, but I can tell you Pan Am doesn't even charge these kind of prices - and thats something to sit up and take notice about! These prices would probably even make Pan Am blush!

 

[mattpilot]

cfi's QOL i guess isnt that bad here. sure they pay aint great but what cfi job is? they fly and get payed for it. no answering phones or fueling planes

I'd agree with that. My old instructor made over 40k at spartan for putting in a lot of work. Pay isn't as good as other places (13-15/hr, as you know), but hours make up for that. Although when you talk to most instructors, they still think they are getting screwed - especially the ones that are married & have children.

'wonder how much embry charges?

gkrangers can fill us in on that. Flight hours are cheaper than spartans, but they charge 3x as much per credit hour ground instruction.

 

[Kream926]

how many MX problems have you had at spartonia?


ive had very minimal, and when there was a problem, they mx people were out there ina jiff to fix it

 

[mattpilot]

how many MX problems have you had at spartonia?


ive had very minimal, and when there was a problem, they mx people were out there ina jiff to fix it

Don't get me wrong. Spartan is an excellent school when it comes to getting an education in aviation.

The problem is the prices they are charging. Lets take a 152. It takes them no more than 30 dollars to operate that p.os. Thats all inclusive, except instructor. Spartan gets a huge discout on its fuel. One senior instructor put the $ amount between 1-1.5 a gallon.

Now why is the school so expensive?

A few possible scenarios we came up with in a group discussion a few months ago:

- The flight campus gets the shaft because the maintnence campus is doing so poorly. Yes, they are having tremendous problems up north. Not a lot of students enrolling - problem is they are getting poor reviews on 'student review' websites. Spartan tries to make up its loses by charging the flight students more.

- The Chinese. They pay 80k to go from 0 time to CPL/ME. Is that enough money to cover that many flight hours + 50 hours in the kingair, housing, etc..? Also, i heard one senior instructor talk about them having lots of additional costs that they didn't factor in when they signed the contract. You have chinese students failing practical tests up to 4 times. You got chinese guys incompleting every other lesson because they are not competent enough to proceed yet. Guess who has to pay for the extra costs? Not them, they have a flat rate. They were only supposed to stay for 12 months. The average stay is 15 months.

- Poor management. I'm sure you heard about the brand new king air they bought a while ago? Well, they had to sell it again because the insurance requirements were insane. 500 hours on type. None of them instructors had that, so they had to sell it again. Some money lost there. Then there is the story of selling another king air so the owner could buy a golf course in florida.


When they posted the notice that prices are going up, there wasn't one who wasn't bi.tching. You can't tell me you are the only one at spartan who doesn't care?

 

[SigAV8R]

- The Chinese. You got chinese guys incompleting every other lesson because they are not competent enough to proceed yet.

I'm Chinese and I was competent to get all my ratings. On top of that, someones thinks I smart enuf to sit in the rigt seat of a jet aeroplane. Maybe I'z smart nuf not to go to Spartan and that's wy I'z did good.

 

[bobs98tlr]

I was there in the fall of 01' and left january 02'. I thought it was great at first. Im glad i left there when i did. Good luck to the guys that are still there.

I did get tirred of being treated like i didnt matter as well. The foreign students where more important than anything.

 

[User546]

- Poor management. I'm sure you heard about the brand new king air they bought a while ago? Well, they had to sell it again because the insurance requirements were insane. 500 hours on type. None of them instructors had that, so they had to sell it again. Some money lost there.

Ole Victor - I've flown this airplane a couple different times. NICE airplane, looks like it came right out of the factory. By far the nicest 90 I've ever had the pleasure of flying. Don't think they lost much money on it, cause they sold it for a cherry price!

http://www.foxflite.com/3-05_BEECH_KING_AIR_C90B.htm
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=734168&size=L

And for the record, I've also flown N127HT - thats the biggest turd of an airplane I've ever set foot in. Those Chinese have rode tht 90 hard and put her up wet. What an embarassment to fly. Nevermind we lost pressurization in it TWICE on one trip. Ended up having to fly at 8,000 feet all the way to our destination(s).

Here's a photo of this gem:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=510584&size=L

OK... I'm moving on... sorry...

 

[User546]

I'm Chinese and I was competent to get all my ratings. On top of that, someones thinks I smart enuf to sit in the rigt seat of a jet aeroplane. Maybe I'z smart nuf not to go to Spartan and that's wy I'z did good.

Which brings up a inquiring question from User:

What is the pass/fail ratio of these Chinese students that you say are incomeptent and bomb there checkrides multiple times? Do they eventually get "given" a certificate for trying, or are they sent home with nothing?

And I'm not questioning your assessment of these people, I have had more then a few close calls while arriving and departing RVS because of these guys who refuse to speak on the radio, or when they do give absolute zero useful information.

 

[moxiepilot]

Glad I left Spartan...heard from a friend there last night about the problems.

Y'all need to get the hell out of there. Go to The british dudes between spartan and christianson. Then go somewhere, anywhere.

 

[mattpilot]

I'm Chinese and I was competent to get all my ratings. On top of that, someones thinks I smart enuf to sit in the rigt seat of a jet aeroplane. Maybe I'z smart nuf not to go to Spartan and that's wy I'z did good.

Dude - i wasn't talking about every chinese in the world. I was talking about the chinese that get sent to spartan.

The problem with most of them is they can't understand english. Its spartan's job to teach them english and get them through the program. You ask them a question and they say "yes sir!" to everything. Now thats not all of them - mostly only the new guys. And no, not everyone is 'incompetent'. The guys that i question are those that land at Tinker AFB while on a XC to Ardmore. Now once they learn english, things get a lot easier, so i'm told by the CFI's.

What is the pass/fail ratio of these Chinese students that you say are incomeptent and bomb there checkrides multiple times? Do they eventually get "given" a certificate for trying, or are they sent home with nothing?

As i understand it, chinese philosophy is about trying as hard as you can. Even if you fail at something 10x but you keep on trying, you still bring honor to your family. I can't remember the exact quote, but something along those lines was in my psychology book.

Even if they do screw up, most of them stay here and finish the program. They just try and try and try. If they get sent home, they bring dishonor to their family (so i'm told). Even the dude that landed at haskell and taxied on a road past a street stop sign and then finally into a hanger stayed (until he screwed up again, then he got sent home).

 

[Pugh]

Two weeks before classes started at Spartan Fall '04 I changed my mind about going there. I'm sure glad I did.

 

[hoop]

The dude landing at Tinker was hilarious. Made the news here in OKC. They said he was "worried about being low on fuel" or something of the sort. Has to be more to the story than that.......

 

[mattpilot]

The dude landing at Tinker was hilarious. Made the news here in OKC. They said he was "worried about being low on fuel" or something of the sort. Has to be more to the story than that.......

Fuel wasn't the problem. The instructors that went there took a few fuel canister with them (the airforce wouldn't fuel them), but once they got there, they discovered the fuel tank was nearly full.

Also, when the chinese guy landed there, he didn't use the radio at all... IIRC, it was said he simply got lost and diverted. But why didn't he go to shawnee or OKC? We don't know what he was thinking. Anyhow, last i heard the guy is still at spartan flying around. Why? Every single one of those chinese guys has diplomatic immunity. Insane, ain't it?

 

[moxiepilot]

money talks (it talks chinese, but it talks)