Wacky new take-off procedure at Pinnacle

[altimaklr]

Just got my revisions today...

Due to a recent AD, we can no longer use the flight director during take-off. The new procedure will be -

TOGA - PF removes the FD - take off, pitch for TEN degrees - ref + 10, call for speed mode. ( I may be off slightly but this is the basic jist).

Anyone else doing this? Seems really wacky to me. Evidently they don't want people rotating to 15 degrees due to some recent issues with CRJ's over rotating during take-off. I'll be interested to see how many people actually do it.

 

[Terantious]

Pretty much the same at Comair

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Pretty much the same at Comair

And ASA. Well, I think we are going to use pitch mode to set the FD to 10 degrees.

 

[zawillif]

Add another stupid procedure we have to do when cleared for takeoff. Pretty soon it's going to take a full 5 minutes to start rolling down the runway after clearance is given.

 

[MarineGrunt]

SkyWest too...

 

[jetracer5]

Same here at ASA. I think this procedure is totally unsafe and unnessasary. With all the FAA stuff going on about runway incursions and trying to reduce the amount of time were heads down in the cockpit during ground ops how can they put this procedure into affect! It takes at least 20 seconds to get the FD to do what you want! Once you put it in pitch mode the FD wants to go to zero degrees. When you try and roll it up to 10 degrees it keeps falling back down to 0 degrees!
Just think your taxing out of some airport like LEX at 6am on reduced rest and while your taking the runway your F/O is heads down f@$&ing with the flight director! This is crazy and I have already sent an email to the FAA about it!

By the way were not doing this because of some MESA pilot cant rotate right are we?

 

[xjcaptain]

I'll be interested to see how many people actually do it.

Um.......Hopefully everybody. Hence "standardization" & SOP. What's the bid deal other than "change is bad"?

 

[CoATP]

OH MI GOD ... takeoff without the flight director! You will surely die unless you use all of the automation possible!
You can also do a runway update if you don't want to hit to use TOGA buttons.

 

[outtahere]

See this kind of stuff was not an issue when people actually had to have some kind of time to come to an airline. Now we have to cater to the lowest common denominator (200 hr fo's). It is remarkable to me that a so called trained professional can't figure out to only rotate to 10 degrees and let the airplane accelerate.

 

[jetracer5]

See this kind of stuff was not an issue when people actually had to have some kind of time to come to an airline. Now we have to cater to the lowest common denominator (200 hr fo's). It is remarkable to me that a so called trained professional can't figure out to only rotate to 10 degrees and let the airplane accelerate.

This AD has nothing to do with low time F/Os here in the U.S. It came from a few non-us airlines that had a problem with pilots over rotating with ice on the wings and stalling the airplane.

 

[PCL_128]

So we operated this airplane for almost two decades with the FD on takeoff, but now the perfectly safe procedure needs to be changed? What a load of horsesh--.

 

[7dustfan]

Typical action from the FAA: Ready!!! SHOOT!!!! Aim! This is gay.

 

[Crowing Rooster]

This new procedure is due to AD 2008-08-06.

Apparently this is due to some CRJ's that had uncommanded roll during take off because of some snow/ice on leading surface or just behind the leading surface of the wing.

The revised takeoff limitation is to reduce high pitch attitudes during rotation. As stated our proceedure is to limit it to approx. 10 degrees.

See the AD docket on www.regulations.gov and you can send comments to the rulemakers.

cr

 

[ePilot22]

Quick way

It takes at least 20 seconds to get the FD to do what you want! Once you put it in pitch mode the FD wants to go to zero degrees. When you try and roll it up to 10 degrees it keeps falling back down to 0 degrees!

It can be done a little quicker than that (agreed it's still stupid that we have to do it at all).

TO/GA button, then just roll the wheel two full times UP (downward movement) plus 4 more clicks.

It's about 8 clicks per roll.

Rolling the wheel will put the FMA in TO/PITCH mode without using the VS button.

However hitting the TO/GA button again on the runway (by habit) will reset the FD to 15 degrees...







eP.

 

[JoeMerchant]

....whatever happened to aviating? Procedures to correct procedures....We are going to procedure ourselves to death...This is what happens when procedures become more important that aviating....

It's simple....fly the d@mn airplane.....

 

[PA44Jockey]

See this kind of stuff was not an issue when people actually had to have some kind of time to come to an airline. Now we have to cater to the lowest common denominator (200 hr fo's). It is remarkable to me that a so called trained professional can't figure out to only rotate to 10 degrees and let the airplane accelerate.

Granted I don't fly with FO's all day, because I am one, but I fly with quite a few CA's that will rotate and be in the flight director in a blink of your eye.

At Comair the most junior CA was hired with a 2002 seniority number. Maybe Dec of 2003 now, but still. Can't chalk it up to the newbies.

 

[viper548]

Do any airlines other than skywest have some procedure having to use wing anti ice during taxi?

 

[flyin4jsus]

air wisconsin is doing the same with setting the pitch to 10 deg. and with the wing anti-ice as well.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Do any airlines other than skywest have some procedure having to use wing anti ice during taxi?

I heard that is a new revision coming into play soon too...

 

[PCL_128]

....whatever happened to aviating? Procedures to correct procedures....We are going to procedure ourselves to death...This is what happens when procedures become more important that aviating....

It's simple....fly the d@mn airplane.....

Amen, Joe. Amen.