Virgin America To Launch New Flights To Newark Liberty International Airport

[jonjuan]

Value is enough to win a battle, but you have to be the biggest dog on the block to survive the war.

Yep. What airline pax see as value are frequency, price, diverseness of routes, and comprehensiveness of loyalty programs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This was edited because it needed to be edited.

 

[Flyer1015]

UAL just announced changes to its schedules:

EWR-LAX changed from 6x to 14x daily flights
EWR-SFO changed from 7x to 16x daily flights

14x and 16x only June through August.

 

[jonjuan]

14x and 16x only June through August.

Maybe that's all the time they need.

 

[Flyer1015]

Maybe that's all the time they need.

Sounds like a summer time increase and then decrease for fall. This route is one if the few routes in which only one legacy dominates two major hubs nonstop. VX did OHare with AA and United doing about 20 flights a day between them. Lets give VX a chance, the prices have dropped already now that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.

 

[Green Banana]

Lets give VX a chance, the prices have dropped .

Sounds like a recipe for success to me.

 

[Flyer1015]

Sounds like a recipe for success to me.

Why are you mis-quoting me? There was not a period at the end of the prices have dropped. Re-read the post again. I clearly mentioned NOW that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.

 

[ackattacker]

Why are you mis-quoting me? There was not a period at the end of the prices have dropped. Re-read the post again. I clearly mentioned NOW that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.

It doesn't change the meaning.

I don't think you get it... low prices may be good for the passenger but it sucks for an airline trying to make a profit. UAL can afford to lose the money on this route for a while. VX can't. It's as simple as that.

 

[Green Banana]

Why are you mis-quoting me? There was not a period at the end of the prices have dropped. Re-read the post again. I clearly mentioned NOW that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.

I did not intend to misinform. The point of my post was to echo you. I don't think the outcome of VA going into this market and the price of tickets going down is a good thing. At first you have a major making a profit, now you have both a major and VA charging less than the true cost of the flight. Great for passengers, bad for airlines, pilots and long term sustainability. The fact is that most of VA's routes have this problem. Both companys take a competitive loss, but one airline has the option of overcharging on other routes to offset the loss.

 

[Flyer1015]

VX came into ORD where both United and American have 12+ flights each day to SFO and LAX. VX still flies to ORD, 2-3x daily. EWR may be the same story.

 

[bri5150]

I did not intend to misinform. The point of my post was to echo you. I don't think the outcome of VA going into this market and the price of tickets going down is a good thing. At first you have a major making a profit, now you have both a major and VA charging less than the true cost of the flight. Great for passengers, bad for airlines, pilots and long term sustainability. The fact is that most of VA's routes have this problem. Both companys take a competitive loss, but one airline has the option of overcharging on other routes to offset the loss.

And that is United's fault. They don't have to flood the market. If United doesn't cut as low, neither does VA and both win. VA isn't the one flooding the market and dropping prices by $300. United added twice as many flights as VA did. I love how the undercutting is always pinned on the new guy, but the old guy is the one that does it.

 

[OurMoney1]

VA need some money routes yesterday.
I just wonder what they are thinking adding a transcon route against an 800 pound gorilla.
The skies will run red on these routes for both sides but the side with the most cash will win and I dont think it will be a virgin who comes out on top.

 

[Green Banana]

And that is United's fault. They don't have to flood the market. If United doesn't cut as low, neither does VA and both win. VA isn't the one flooding the market and dropping prices by $300. United added twice as many flights as VA did. I love how the undercutting is always pinned on the new guy, but the old guy is the one that does it.

It's nobody's fault, it is competitive capitalism. You can't blame VA for going on offense and you can't blame UA for playing defense. Quote Alonzo Harris "The $h!t's chess, it ain't checkers!"

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes, but play by the rules. Not an illegal predatory attack, like AA doing from DFW to MCI against Vanguard back in the day. I'm not saying that us happening here, as long as airlines follow the laws.

 

[climbhappy]

forget that VA is not like spirit, but they have low fares.....baldanza at spirit doesn't care who is in the market,, he wants to be 25% lower than everybody...he's the dollar store of airlines....but VA is a premium brand connected with big brother.....what is the whole mission of VA? to be the lowest premium discount airline for business? leisure? both? but never on tuesdays? WTF?
...going into EWR should just segment a small nitch for them, eh???

 

[Flyer1015]

forget that VA is not like spirit, but they have low fares.....baldanza at spirit doesn't care who is in the market,, he wants to be 25% lower than everybody...he's the dollar store of airlines....but VA is a premium brand connected with big brother.....what is the whole mission of VA? to be the lowest premium discount airline for business? leisure? both? but never on tuesdays? WTF?
...going into EWR should just segment a small nitch for them, eh???

I assume you meant VX, not VA. VX can connect California traffic into EWR to connect on VA and Singapore Airlines, in addition to the regular O/D traffic.

 

[climbhappy]

yes, that's right...so really VX should just open routes that supply feed to VA? is that kind of the mission statement.?

 

[Flyer1015]

yes, that's right...so really VX should just open routes that supply feed to VA? is that kind of the mission statement.?

No, VX is starting service to two of the biggest east and west coast cities that are currently dominated by one legacy carrier (nonstop). This nonstop route is a monopoly as of right now.

 

[jonjuan]

No, VX is starting service to two of the biggest east and west coast cities that are currently dominated by one legacy carrier (nonstop). This nonstop route is a monopoly as of right now.

American and Delta don't fly between SFO and NYC?

 

[Flyer1015]

American and Delta don't fly between SFO and NYC?

Out of EWR. JFK to SFO is already covered by the 3 legacies and 2 LCCs. EWR is currently done by only one legacy, UA.

 

[jonjuan]

Out of EWR. JFK to SFO is already covered by the 3 legacies and 2 LCCs. EWR is currently done by only one legacy, UA.

Sure, but that's not really considered a monopoly as there are 2 other airports within 20 miles that fly thousands of seats between SFO and NYC daily. In any case, expect UA, DAL, AMR to respond to any additional capacity being added between the two cities.

 

[Flyer1015]

Sure, but that's not really considered a monopoly as there are 2 other airports within 20 miles that fly thousands of seats between SFO and NYC daily. In any case, expect UA, DAL, AMR to respond to any additional capacity being added between the two cities.

NYC is all 3 airports. There are customers who'd prefer to fly out of EWR and would be willing to pay more to do so. LGA can't do SFO/LAX. Only JFK and EWR can. So far, all the legacies do JFK to LAX/SFO. It's the EWR to California market that is only one airline. Now, it will be two. It was a monopoly when you look at the route pair (EWR).

 

[bri5150]

UAL just announced changes to its schedules:

EWR-LAX changed from 6x to 14x daily flights
EWR-SFO changed from 7x to 16x daily flights

What happened with the FI prophets on this one? Another fantastic hind sight thread. Necro reading these things is waaaay better than reading the 50 bazillion jetBlue hating threads.

 

[ackattacker]

I don't know exactly what's going but I just searched for a weekday roundtrip EWR-SFO 2 weeks out and it was $311.80 taxes and fees included. Exact same price United or Virgin America. Nobody is making money at those prices I'm guessing.

 

[bri5150]

I don't know exactly what's going but I just searched for a weekday roundtrip EWR-SFO 2 weeks out and it was $311.80 taxes and fees included. Exact same price United or Virgin America. Nobody is making money at those prices I'm guessing.

Maybe not at that exact fare, but it is one of our best routes at this point. It took about 3 months to mature for us. Maybe it's because of leisure travel for Thanksgiving? What exact day did you search?

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2013/08/newark_liberty_helps_virgin_am.html

 

[ackattacker]

Maybe not at that exact fare, but it is one of our best routes at this point. It took about 3 months to mature for us. Maybe it's because of leisure travel for Thanksgiving? What exact day did you search?

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2013/08/newark_liberty_helps_virgin_am.html

I searched for Dec 4th through 6th. A bit more than 2 weeks, but I didn't want the Holiday screwing with the results. A tried a few more dates with varied results, some as high as $600 round trip but the $300 fare seems pretty common.

I read that link you provided, and David Cush's words seem very carefully crafted. He never claims the route is profitable, he says "are performing ahead of forecasts" and seeing "early signs of profitability", and have "a revenue share in excess of it's share of capacity". These are all statements which sound quite optimistic but tell us nothing.

EDIT: To be fair, I do get similar prices when I check JFK-SFO and BOS-SFO so I guess maybe those dates are just light travel days. Still seems pretty cheap for a transcon these days.

 

[bri5150]

I searched for Dec 4th through 6th. A bit more than 2 weeks, but I didn't want the Holiday screwing with the results. A tried a few more dates with varied results, some as high as $600 round trip but the $300 fare seems pretty common.

I read that link you provided, and David Cush's words seem very carefully crafted. He never claims the route is profitable, he says "are performing ahead of forecasts" and seeing "early signs of profitability", and have "a revenue share in excess of it's share of capacity". These are all statements which sound quite optimistic but tell us nothing.

EDIT: To be fair, I do get similar prices when I check JFK-SFO and BOS-SFO so I guess maybe those dates are just light travel days. Still seems pretty cheap for a transcon these days.

Agreed, but the article is from a while back. I don't have an exact breakdown of our routes, but how different routes are doing is generally passed through the pilot group. We heard directly from the CEO that all the routes in the entire network are "pulling their weight", so at a minimum it is breaking even. Like I said before though, I have heard many times it is one of our more profitable routes.