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Virgin America To Launch New Flights To Newark Liberty International Airport

DASHDRIVER

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That was before EWR went slot controled in '08 I believe. They can still move stuff around but why bother. The O&D between the pairings are quite high. A couple hundred passengers one way or another isn't gonna make that big of a diff. And from a pricing stand point I don't see us dropping the floor too low. The CEO wante this route to obtain maturity in less than a year.
 

Flyer1015

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When I think of VX I think of Branson and all of the 'AA/BA no way' crap. He is probably just a public relations figurehead of the organization, and the true deal makers are the ex-AA people.

He still owns and has a controlling share of VX up to the maximum allowed by law for both counts.
 

ackattacker

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hah!
That was before EWR went slot controled in '08 I believe. They can still move stuff around but why bother. The O&D between the pairings are quite high. A couple hundred passengers one way or another isn't gonna make that big of a diff. And from a pricing stand point I don't see us dropping the floor too low. The CEO wante this route to obtain maturity in less than a year.

I think it is naive to presume UA will simply ignore an incursion into their core market. So far legacy airlines have refrained from getting into damaging fare wars, but they've also refrained from incurring on each other's hubs. VX has little ability to hurt UA on this market but UA can seriously hurt VX by increasing capacity with larger airplanes and dropping the price.
 

Pez D. Spencer

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I think it is naive to presume UA will simply ignore an incursion into their core market. So far legacy airlines have refrained from getting into damaging fare wars, but they've also refrained from incurring on each other's hubs. VX has little ability to hurt UA on this market but UA can seriously hurt VX by increasing capacity with larger airplanes and dropping the price.

I doubt anyone is "naive" -- you're just reciting typical Legacy playbook... what else is new? This cr@p hasn't changed since People's... But, whatever, they don't see it coming -- about as laughable as your financial analysis on the other thread.
 

ackattacker

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I doubt anyone is "naive" -- you're just reciting typical Legacy playbook... what else is new? This cr@p hasn't changed since People's... But, whatever, they don't see it coming -- about as laughable as your financial analysis on the other thread.

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make. Are you drunk?
 

Pez D. Spencer

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I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make. Are you drunk?

nevermind...
-------------
and since FI allows me to continue to edit...

Unless you are new to aviation, you must know that the aforementioned legacy play is not new, it is the same tactic Lorenzo used against People's Express in Newark. (are you drunk?) << I would just guess it's expected.>>

In the other concurrent thread you said:
Huh.

The first and only time Virgin America reported a quarterly profit was in the 3rd quarter of 2010. Until they show a real profit, their financial situation is deteriorating, not improving.

When Southwest airlines was formed and almost immediately went public in 1971 they offered 650,000 shares at $11 a share. That's $7.1 million market capitalization, which pretty handily covered their startup expenses for their 3 airplane operation. I don't think you want to make a comparison there.

Nobody has claimed a company never went public when carrying debt. That would be an absurd claim. I think someone claimed no company ever had a successful IPO while so deeply in the hole. I think that's probably a valid claim. Debt doesn't just magically go away in an IPO, the IPO would have to raise enough money to pay it off and also fund future growth. In this case we are talking about in the range of over $1 billion dollars (cue Dr. Evil finger gesture). Their operation is too small to support such a valuation. Delta airlines, currently the most valuable airline in the US in terms of market capitalization, is hugely profitable, is valued over $8 billion dollars, and flies roughly 250 *billion* airline seat miles annually. Virgin America flies roughly 10 billion airline seat miles. It's only 4 percent of the size of Delta, so there's no way they're 12% of the value particularly when they can't make dime one.

^^^^^^
(first paragraph is true IMO)

1. Learn what market cap is. (hint, it's not value)
2. Learn what "Enterprise Value" is.
3. Figure out what Delta's EV is... then, figure out what Delta's debt is.
4. Look at their cash and cash equivalents. Assess how their EV was derived.
5. Take a look at say... LUV... compare their market cap to their EV (given cash and debt, etc.).

You started with "Huh" -- I should have figured that was a statement of fact.
 
Last edited:

Flyby1206

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UAL just announced changes to its schedules:

EWR-LAX changed from 6x to 14x daily flights
EWR-SFO changed from 7x to 16x daily flights

 

jonjuan

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UAL just announced changes to its schedules:

EWR-LAX changed from 6x to 14x daily flights
EWR-SFO changed from 7x to 16x daily flights


Someone just woke the sleeping giant. May the best value win.
 

Flyby1206

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Someone just woke the sleeping giant. May the best value win.

Value is enough to win a battle, but you have to be the biggest dog on the block to survive the war.
 

jonjuan

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Value is enough to win a battle, but you have to be the biggest dog on the block to survive the war.

Yep. What airline pax see as value are frequency, price, diverseness of routes, and comprehensiveness of loyalty programs.
 

Pogue Mahone

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This was edited because it needed to be edited.
 

Flyer1015

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Maybe that's all the time they need.

Sounds like a summer time increase and then decrease for fall. This route is one if the few routes in which only one legacy dominates two major hubs nonstop. VX did OHare with AA and United doing about 20 flights a day between them. Lets give VX a chance, the prices have dropped already now that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.
 

Flyer1015

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Sounds like a recipe for success to me.

Why are you mis-quoting me? There was not a period at the end of the prices have dropped. Re-read the post again. I clearly mentioned NOW that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.
 

ackattacker

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Why are you mis-quoting me? There was not a period at the end of the prices have dropped. Re-read the post again. I clearly mentioned NOW that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.

It doesn't change the meaning.

I don't think you get it... low prices may be good for the passenger but it sucks for an airline trying to make a profit. UAL can afford to lose the money on this route for a while. VX can't. It's as simple as that.
 

Green Banana

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Why are you mis-quoting me? There was not a period at the end of the prices have dropped. Re-read the post again. I clearly mentioned NOW that this nonstop route is no longer a monopoly.

I did not intend to misinform. The point of my post was to echo you. I don't think the outcome of VA going into this market and the price of tickets going down is a good thing. At first you have a major making a profit, now you have both a major and VA charging less than the true cost of the flight. Great for passengers, bad for airlines, pilots and long term sustainability. The fact is that most of VA's routes have this problem. Both companys take a competitive loss, but one airline has the option of overcharging on other routes to offset the loss.
 

Flyer1015

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VX came into ORD where both United and American have 12+ flights each day to SFO and LAX. VX still flies to ORD, 2-3x daily. EWR may be the same story.
 
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