Virgin America still needs MORE cash

flyipilot

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If you google the news on VA you get an article about how VA needs yet another infusion of cash. They make it sound like they are not doing well at all. They still will not disclose what their losses are even though they lost the battle over it. What are they hiding? Can anyone who works there give me a "non coolaid" answer. We all know the idustry stinks and they are ALL losing money but, why is VA pretending they are ok when they are in fact on the brink of shut down. Nothing I read tells me any different and they will not tell anyone how thay are doing...so, no news is bad news. Oh, and please do not tell me this was also part of the business plan. LOL...it was not. (just like the first 100 mil of cash infusion 6 months ago was NOT.) Thanks for any info! I actually want to see them survive....I just want some straight answers and not see them flying one day and then shut down over night the next. It would be refreshing to see this company really different and up front from the other airlines telling their employees lie after lie.
 

Chronic Jetlag

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People will stop buying tickets if they smell bad news that's why the VX spin machine will do their best to massage and window dress. Fact is until they publish their numbers to the DOT it's all just speculations.
 

dkwid

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It is funny you would see the ability to raise private equity as a negative. If you have truly been reading the headlines lately all the airlines and corporations in general are looking for infusions of cash right now. United earlier this week reworked some debt to increase their cash position by 250 million. Several months ago SW borrowed 600 million.

Virgin is a privately held entity. Rather than selling stock to raise money for continued growth they go to individuals and investment groups looking for investments. Key word being "investment". It is fair to say wealthy groups don't give away their money without a high expectation of a good return. In the current world economic state if a company is actually able to raise new cash that is a damn good indication that investors feel that that company will turn their investment in a positive direction. On the other hand if a company can not raise capital than clearly investors doubt the business model.

The same news article you quote names a private equity group that not only has faith in Virgin America but feel Virgin will be showing a profit in the not to distant future. Keep in mind Virgin has been operating for just over one year, they have significant growth plans and need cash to fund those plans. As long as they can raise cash they are in great shape. The day the money guys say "no thanks" the opposite would be true.
 

The Victors

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It is funny you would see the ability to raise private equity as a negative. If you have truly been reading the headlines lately all the airlines and corporations in general are looking for infusions of cash right now. United earlier this week reworked some debt to increase their cash position by 250 million. Several months ago SW borrowed 600 million.

Virgin is a privately held entity. Rather than selling stock to raise money for continued growth they go to individuals and investment groups looking for investments. Key word being "investment". It is fair to say wealthy groups don't give away their money without a high expectation of a good return. In the current world economic state if a company is actually able to raise new cash that is a damn good indication that investors feel that that company will turn their investment in a positive direction. On the other hand if a company can not raise capital than clearly investors doubt the business model.

The same news article you quote names a private equity group that not only has faith in Virgin America but feel Virgin will be showing a profit in the not to distant future. Keep in mind Virgin has been operating for just over one year, they have significant growth plans and need cash to fund those plans. As long as they can raise cash they are in great shape. The day the money guys say "no thanks" the opposite would be true.
Wealthy groups? investors? equity group? It's Branson and only Branson. VA is a foreign owned company operating in the domestic U.S. Now I know there's a word for that.......what's it called again??:cool:
p.s. I heard he did a interview recently stating he was done throwing money a VA. I didn't see it, so I'm not sure if it's true, but hopefully!
 

dkwid

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Wealthy groups? investors? equity group? It's Branson and only Branson. VA is a foreign owned company operating in the domestic U.S. Now I know there's a word for that.......what's it called again??

You make a bold, of course, completely inaccurate statement. Any chance you can back up your rantings with fact.

An example of a fact. Cyrus Capital and Black Canyon, both US investment firms make up 75 percent of the ownership group for Virgin America.

I know that we all have strong opinions about many things but living in an imaginary world does not further your cause. If you would like a real eye opener look at foreign ownership of every large us corporation. Economies are global, period. My IRA has many investment in non US companies. etc, etc
 

Ralph Cramden

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Well "The Victors", please share your facts with the class.

The DOT and the legal departments of every legacy airline found the 75% US and 25% UK money to be just that... Within the rule. A US DOT certificate was issued after extensive investigation, and a US FAR 121 certificate is what VA flies under as well.

Look at foreign investment in these same legacy carriers, especially NWA to enlighten yourself.
 

ualdriver

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Virgin is a privately held entity. Rather than selling stock to raise money for continued growth they go to individuals and investment groups looking for investments. Key word being "investment". It is fair to say wealthy groups don't give away their money without a high expectation of a good return.
Yeah right. Tell that to TPG to illustrate a recent example of supposedly smart people making "wise" investments with "high expectations of a good return." Rich people, poor people, good investors, and bad investors ALL have a history of throwing good money after bad in the airline industry.
 

spinproof

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Deadwood will survive. If you work there you may not, but they will.

If you are thinking about going there STOP THINKING!
You'll thank me eventually.:D

"....Merican boy you been to Hanoi b-fore"
"Yes in '69...but I didn't stop"!
 
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flyipilot

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It is funny you would see the ability to raise private equity as a negative. If you have truly been reading the headlines lately all the airlines and corporations in general are looking for infusions of cash right now. United earlier this week reworked some debt to increase their cash position by 250 million. Several months ago SW borrowed 600 million.

Virgin is a privately held entity. Rather than selling stock to raise money for continued growth they go to individuals and investment groups looking for investments. Key word being "investment". It is fair to say wealthy groups don't give away their money without a high expectation of a good return. In the current world economic state if a company is actually able to raise new cash that is a damn good indication that investors feel that that company will turn their investment in a positive direction. On the other hand if a company can not raise capital than clearly investors doubt the business model.

The same news article you quote names a private equity group that not only has faith in Virgin America but feel Virgin will be showing a profit in the not to distant future. Keep in mind Virgin has been operating for just over one year, they have significant growth plans and need cash to fund those plans. As long as they can raise cash they are in great shape. The day the money guys say "no thanks" the opposite would be true.

I have to say you are half right. Just the fact you have to raise the money and do not have it on hand means you are losing it somewhere. The company I work for never goes out and gets an infusion of cash from investors. They do not need to. If VA was making an ounce of profit and they had any in the bank they would not always need cash every 6 months. As for being a smart investment, hmmmm, no...it is not. It is highly risky and go ask the banks who extended them a few million 6 months ago if they got a return yet? Oh yes, they say we will make a profil next year. Sure. How? I bet they will not. They are losing SO much money now how can they make a profit in less than 8 months? Branson will not keep pouring (if he can even do it by law) money into a losing battle. He admitted Virgin Cola did not work in the US and he pulled it. He will do the same if he needs with VA. Although, I think it will be some time. I actually think the 2 banks will pull their investment before he does. That way he will not look lik ehe is giving in on his idea. BUt, behind closed doors I bet he asks the banks to pull out soon. Just seems like him.
 

SaabStory

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....
Wealthy groups? investors? equity group? It's Branson and only Branson. VA is a foreign owned company operating in the domestic U.S. Now I know there's a word for that.......what's it called again??:cool:
p.s. I heard he did a interview recently stating he was done throwing money a VA. I didn't see it, so I'm not sure if it's true, but hopefully!
Only a guy from U of M could come up with that.
 

The Victors

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Wealthy groups? investors? equity group? It's Branson and only Branson. VA is a foreign owned company operating in the domestic U.S. Now I know there's a word for that.......what's it called again??

You make a bold, of course, completely inaccurate statement. Any chance you can back up your rantings with fact.

An example of a fact. Cyrus Capital and Black Canyon, both US investment firms make up 75 percent of the ownership group for Virgin America.

I know that we all have strong opinions about many things but living in an imaginary world does not further your cause. If you would like a real eye opener look at foreign ownership of every large us corporation. Economies are global, period. My IRA has many investment in non US companies. etc, etc
I don't need to post facts. Why don't you post facts that prove me wrong? Facts besides " the money comes from blue diamond lizard trading company of Burbank" or whatever name Branson has on the paperwork. I think it's pretty obvious, but if you need to believe that Branson only controls 25% so that you can sleep at night, then go right ahead.
 

Beetle007

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Thanks. It's unfortunate that your community college didn't teach you to not end a sentence with "that".....dumbass
To borrow the words of Winston Churchill when someone told him he shouldn't end a sentence in a preposition:

"That is the kind of thing up with which I will not put."

Of course he was making fun of the non-existent rule that is often misunderstood. It is often very appropriate to end a sentence in a preposition.
 

SaabStory

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....
Thanks. It's unfortunate that your community college didn't teach you to not end a sentence with "that".....dumbass
Dude...relax!! Just wanted to chat about some of that Michigan football??.....basketball?? What years were you in "A squared"?
 
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mvedepo

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Dude...relax!! Just wanted to chat about some of that Michigan football??.....basketball?? What years were you in "A squared"?
I KNOW he doesn't want to talk about football! :laugh:
 

B727Driver

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Several months ago SW borrowed 600 million.


SWA borrowed $600 million because they can and they haven't had to use it. Try borrowing that kind of money today. Good luck. Add that to the billions they have on hand and they can weather out this economic storm better that most. This economic fall cannot last for ever. In the meantime, some airlines will go out of business or drastically reduce capacity thus decreasing their revenue. Also, look for SWA to buy more hedges when fuel hits around the 70-80 range. Jet fuel will not stay below $90 for long. Cash is king and they have a bunch.
 

dickie q

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What again is SW hedged at right now?
 
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B727Driver

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70% at $51.

Cash must be available to hedge, some players don't have such positions.
 

Draginass

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Hopefully VA will get no more cash and relegate itself to the airline dustbin where it belongs.
 
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