Virgin America reduces hiring mins

[mxer]

Now thats just stupid. When you grasp for a straw, you really don't care which straw. Is it painful to fly with that much space between the ears. Pressure must be unbearable.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Don't look now, Richard, but regional jobs are drying up and blowing away with the 50 seat jets. Ask the next 20 year Comair F/O you see for verification. Of you might see how the Eagle F/Os are feeling right about now.

By cutting our throats and flying for 60%, YOU are ensuring there will be NO well paying airline pilot jobs in YOUR future.

Ever heard the old saying, "When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

 

[Lake Alice]

don't look now, richard, but regional jobs are drying up and blowing away with the 50 seat jets. Ask the next 20 year comair f/o you see for verification. Of you might see how the eagle f/os are feeling right about now.

by cutting our throats and flying for 60%, you are ensuring there will be no well paying airline pilot jobs in your future.

ever heard the old saying, "when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

+1+1+1

 

[NEDude]

Don't look now, Richard, but regional jobs are drying up and blowing away with the 50 seat jets. Ask the next 20 year Comair F/O you see for verification. Of you might see how the Eagle F/Os are feeling right about now.

By cutting our throats and flying for 60%, YOU are ensuring there will be NO well paying airline pilot jobs in YOUR future.

Ever heard the old saying, "When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

50 seat RJs are being replaced by 70 seat RJs. Management is pushing for 100 seat RJs now, and I bet it will not be too long before some group caves, they always do.

By allowing outsourcing to RJs, you (ALPA) started digging the hole a long time ago. Every time ALPA gives up more scope, you dig the hole a little deeper. You claim that that RJ rates have no affect on your pay, which shows just how stupid you are. You are still digging the hole and don't even realize it! You created the mess, don't ask the rest of us to fix it for you by living at poverty level wages flying RJs while more and more entry level mainline jobs are given away.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You're the one flying an airbus for RJ wages, dork. Think about it.

 

[Snapshot]

He cannot grasp the concept that ALPA has created the downward pressure on wages by allowing mainline flying to be transferred to poverty level wage paying regionals. Since he cannot grasp that fact, he also cannot grasp the fact that the ALPA endorsed outsourcing has eliminated the entry level jobs at the good mainline carriers. Since he fails to grasp those two basic concepts, his brain would explode if you were to tell him that by continuing to work for poverty level wages at the ALPA endorsed outsourcing company, you are continuing to put downward pressure by allowing even more outsourcing from mainline.

You don't seem to grasp that ALPA is not some sort of entity that dictates contracts from the top down. Airlines don't have contracts with, nor do they negotiate with ALPA. They have contracts with and negotiate with their pilot groups. The members of the individual pilot groups voted to give some of those things away because they didn't understand how important they were at the time. The others were stripped during bankruptcies. The individual pilot groups haven't taken them back because they lack the collective balls to stand up for themselves and demand it. It is far easier to point the finger at someone else than look in the mirror. Blaming ALPA for, or expecting ALPA to do anything is like blaming the hammer for your house falling down.

I guess you can rationalize your actions any way you want, but the truth of the matter is regional pay rates have no effect on my contract.

However, Airbus pilots who whoore themselves out for 2/3rds pay certainly do.

If you are unhappy with your pay or your contract, blame it on your pilot group. They are the ones who accepted it. Virgin, Regionals, Southwest, whoever.....didn't get a ballot.

 

[ultrarunner]

This is the underlying issue with having a 'national association' that will whore itself out to any group.

ALPA loved the day the majors started farming out their flying. It's all out dues. And when regionals hit the scene, well, that was a $hit-load of more bodies forking over that few percentage points.....

The rest is history....

 

[Fubijaakr]

What NEDude and the rest of the VX mental midgets can't seem to grasp is that flying and Airbus for RJ wages puts downward pressure on ALL OF US.

He tosses out the ALPA strawman, but Union affiliation hardly matters. USAPA is doing the same thing under LOA 93 that the VX slugs do voluntarily.

But he can't answer that because HE'S PROUD of the fact that he thinks VX is the path to the stars for him. The problem is in 20 years when he's still making RJ wages he'll have no one but the "man" in the mirror to blame.

 

[flyboyzii]

this is the underlying issue with having a 'national association' that will whore itself out to any group.

Alpa loved the day the majors started farming out their flying. It's all out dues. And when regionals hit the scene, well, that was a $hit-load of more bodies forking over that few percentage points.....

The rest is history....

+100....

 

[Fubijaakr]

..well, that was a $hit-load of more bodies forking over that few percentage points.....

Ya think?

 

[hyflyin]

What NEDude and the rest of the VX mental midgets can't seem to grasp is that flying and Airbus for RJ wages puts downward pressure on ALL OF US.

He tosses out the ALPA strawman, but Union affiliation hardly matters. USAPA is doing the same thing under LOA 93 that the VX slugs do voluntarily.

But he can't answer that because HE'S PROUD of the fact that he thinks VX is the path to the stars for him. The problem is in 20 years when he's still making RJ wages he'll have no one but the "man" in the mirror to blame.

And....the 56000 Alpa members are not strong enough to combat it? Huh, not much of a union there. Then again, national went it's separate way long ago and doesn't do what the majority demand, yet you faithfully send your dues?

I guess you flying Deltas passenger helps bring the wages up? But at least your doing it for a good rate, right? I am sure your union brothers are happy about it. Wait, never mind, I see in other posts that it pains them a regional airline is flying their product in the Northwest and making a tremendous profit off of it.

You should be proud.

:beer:

 

[Snapshot]

This message is hidden because Foolbi is on your ignore list (and has been for many months).

Ignore = read, quote, and respond to?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Ignore = read, quote, and respond to?

I know, amazing, right?

 

[xjhawk]

give me a break. I know a lot of guys who applied and have not gotten an interview. Oh wait, they are not connected, chuck yeager, or meet HR's requirements for diversity

 

[Fubijaakr]

give me a break. I know a lot of guys who applied and have not gotten an interview. Oh wait, they are not connected, chuck yeager, or meet HR's requirements for diversity

Or as Mr. Spock would say, "Coloquially expressed but essentially correct."

 

[atpcliff]

Fubi, you're right. I'll go to Delta. Not hiring for 2012. I'll go to American, bankrupt. I'll go to UniCal, 1500 on furlough. US Air, not hiring. Hawaiian, forget it unless you live in Hawaii because otherwise no call. Spirit, if they call you. UPS not hiring. Soooo stay stuck in regional hell through a round of concessions and bankruptcy or try Virgin?

USAir was just hiring. UAL will be soon. Atlas is hiring, but interviews are temporarily suspended. Southern, Omni, Evergreen are hiring. I think World is. Kalitta is hiring.
TONS of overseas jobs at great pay are hiring, including some FO positions.

cliff
GRB

 

[NEDude]

USAir was just hiring. UAL will be soon. Atlas is hiring, but interviews are temporarily suspended. Southern, Omni, Evergreen are hiring. I think World is. Kalitta is hiring.
TONS of overseas jobs at great pay are hiring, including some FO positions.

cliff
GRB

Pay is worse at USAir than it is at Virgin and had less than 50 openings in its last vacancy. UAL has over 1400 furloughs to recall, so "soon" is a bit optimistic. Southern, Omni, Evergreen, Kalitta and World all pay around the same as Virgin (higher hourly wage - worse guarentee) and require a lot of time away from home and some real 'nice' layovers.

The overseas jobs are hiring and paying well, but for some people the idea of living in central China is just not that appealing, especially if they have family. Yes I know, there are places other than China that are hiring, but the point it that if you have a family, sometimes the overseas jobs are not a viable option. If you are divorced and have kids, and a psycho ex-wife who is not fit to have the kids (not that I'd know anything about that ) it makes the decision even harder.

The point is what is a perfect job for one guy may not be a perfect job for another guy.

 

[Flyer1015]

Evergreen is furloughing!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Did any of you slugs ever consider getting a job outside of aviation. Nah...wouldn't want to actually WORK for a living. Better to stab others in the back. Just like a scab.

 

[NEDude]

Did any of you slugs ever consider getting a job outside of aviation. Nah...wouldn't want to actually WORK for a living. Better to stab others in the back. Just like a scab.

Have you?

Hypocrite

The job market in the last five years has been the worst since the great depression. Not a smart move to go back to school, take on loads of debt and try and break into the job market. The fact that you believe others should do that in a vain attempt to help you make a little more money is the definition of selfish. Of course ignorant fools like yourself are unable to see that.

 

[jonjuan]

Because of our growth, I make more than my peers who went to Delta at the same time I came here, and will continue to out-earn them until they upgrade. By then, our payscales will be very different, and I may well continue to outearn them.

No Ph.D required.

And a jizz mopper makes even more than you.

 

[jonjuan]

But he can't answer that because HE'S PROUD of the fact that he thinks VX is the path to the stars for him. The problem is in 20 years when he's still making RJ wages he'll have no one but the "man" in the mirror to blame.

Lol-does anyone outside of Burlingame really think vx will even be around in 10 years, much less 20? Maybe jayme should calculate first year pay a few years from now in his "long term" career calculator.

 

[jonjuan]

Fubi, you're right. I'll go to Delta. Not hiring for 2012. I'll go to American, bankrupt. I'll go to UniCal, 1500 on furlough. US Air, not hiring. Hawaiian, forget it unless you live in Hawaii because otherwise no call. Spirit, if they call you. UPS not hiring. Soooo stay stuck in regional hell through a round of concessions and bankruptcy or try Virgin?

You do realize virgin continues to lose hundreds of millions, don't you? Don't you think that should be a factor in your long term decision versus simply thinking of quick upgrade and big shiny jets with the "hope" of more pay someday? Reminds me of the whole Mesa thing.

 

[ackattacker]

Pay is worse at USAir than it is at Virgin and had less than 50 openings in its last vacancy.

US Airways is hiring and hiring is projected to continue indefinitely.

When you compare payscales between Virgin and US Airways on the A320, Virgin does make a few bucks more on an hourly basis. However US Airways has a better retirement program (company gives 10% into your 401K), and a higher reserve guarantee (76 hours vs. 70 hours), and profit sharing, so in the end the total compensation at US Airways is likely higher. I realize this is like two special ed students arguing about which one is smarter.

But consider that right now a new hire at US is only 400 numbers or so away from holding 757/767 FO which is only a couple of years. To make the numbers work at Virgin America you have to assume continuous growth and quick upgrade to Captain. This is a bit of a gamble at a company that has yet to turn a profit. The retirement wave at US Airways is as close to a sure thing as you're going to get in this industry.

 

[jayme]

Lol-does anyone outside of Burlingame really think vx will even be around in 10 years, much less 20? Maybe jayme should calculate first year pay a few years from now in his "long term" career calculator.

I wasn't defending our pay, I was responding to Splert's assertion that a Ph.D. in behavioral studies would be required to understand why pilots would consider growth when planning on future pay.

Maybe we won't be around in 10 years. Who knows? Maybe your wonderful company will shut down. If Virgin shuts down I'll take my experience and get a better job than I could have possibly gotten by never taking this chance and staying at my regional for the last 4 years.

 

[Flyer1015]

Did any of you slugs ever consider getting a job outside of aviation. Nah...wouldn't want to actually WORK for a living. Better to stab others in the back. Just like a scab.

Did you quit to work outside aviation? Hypocrit!

 

[sat74]

Pay is worse at USAir than it is at Virgin and had less than 50 openings in its last vacancy. UAL has over 1400 furloughs to recall, so "soon" is a bit optimistic. Southern, Omni, Evergreen, Kalitta and World all pay around the same as Virgin (higher hourly wage - worse guarentee) and require a lot of time away from home and some real 'nice' layovers.

The overseas jobs are hiring and paying well, but for some people the idea of living in central China is just not that appealing, especially if they have family. Yes I know, there are places other than China that are hiring, but the point it that if you have a family, sometimes the overseas jobs are not a viable option. If you are divorced and have kids, and a psycho ex-wife who is not fit to have the kids (not that I'd know anything about that ) it makes the decision even harder.

The point is what is a perfect job for one guy may not be a perfect job for another guy.

Hate to break the news but the USA is hardly #1 anymore. Many overseas jobs blow away those at home and it would do Americans right to expose themselves and family to life outside their little myopic small town mentality.

That said, many of the nonsked carriers like Atlas and World pay MUCH more than Virgin America! They have rigs and higher hourly pay for one thing, but most of the guys I know there fly on average 78-82 hours a month and have 14-17 days off per month - often in 1 long block.

 

[DHPFLYN]

What is reserve like? Are you used often? Short call ? Long call ? How many days off?

Thanks

 

[FurloughedAgain]

... and have 14-17 days off per month - often in 1 long block.

There was a time when I would've enjoyed such an opportunity. However now with a child I need to be around more often and more frequently. Jobs like these just are not workable.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Virgin Kool-Aid suckers can't figure out the basics.